Which Dies?
- Thread starter D_H_P
- Start date
Surprisingly on many rimless rifle cases of Mauser family derivation...so .270, .280, .30-06 standard FL dies don't fully resize to factory spec the area immediately above the case base. Some call this area the case web.
This is common with all makers screw threaded 7/8"x14 dies. Old Wilson dies used with a strong industrial type arbor press fully enclose the case, case web and in fact case rim on Mauser family rimless case so in fact act as if they were SB or USB dimensioned dies in any case.
In a self-loading rifle extraction is strong enough to tear the rim off the case. So primary reason for these dies wss in pump action rifles such as Remington's 7xx and 7xxx series where extraction, being by the pump by hand of the forestock was weak.
What SB and USB (small base and even smaller ultra small base - RCBS listed both in some calibres) is size that web area to a greater degrer that FL dies.
So...thanks to Mrs Thatcher and the 1988 Hurd/Hogg ban...do we need them on UK? Yes if buying brasd that's gone through something like a slack chambered Parker-Hale. It re-adjusts the brass back to near...but not quite...factory spec.
Then just use standard FL dies thereafter. Certainly I don't use them much but do have them in .270 and .280. The .270 I found useful with my P-Hale.
But the ultimate effect sizing effect on the case web ares was old school Wilson full length dies and a strong industrial arbor press.
Best source was eBay "worldwide" search for USA sellers. Secondhand they don't sell for much.
This is common with all makers screw threaded 7/8"x14 dies. Old Wilson dies used with a strong industrial type arbor press fully enclose the case, case web and in fact case rim on Mauser family rimless case so in fact act as if they were SB or USB dimensioned dies in any case.
In a self-loading rifle extraction is strong enough to tear the rim off the case. So primary reason for these dies wss in pump action rifles such as Remington's 7xx and 7xxx series where extraction, being by the pump by hand of the forestock was weak.
What SB and USB (small base and even smaller ultra small base - RCBS listed both in some calibres) is size that web area to a greater degrer that FL dies.
So...thanks to Mrs Thatcher and the 1988 Hurd/Hogg ban...do we need them on UK? Yes if buying brasd that's gone through something like a slack chambered Parker-Hale. It re-adjusts the brass back to near...but not quite...factory spec.
Then just use standard FL dies thereafter. Certainly I don't use them much but do have them in .270 and .280. The .270 I found useful with my P-Hale.
But the ultimate effect sizing effect on the case web ares was old school Wilson full length dies and a strong industrial arbor press.
Best source was eBay "worldwide" search for USA sellers. Secondhand they don't sell for much.
Last edited:
Have you got a normal press? I would thoroughly recommend REDDING. Norman Clark of Rugby is the UK importer, but they are available in many fine gunshops and online. You wont go wrong with RCBS or LYMAN. There is nothing wrong with LEE - I started off with them, you can obtain very good groups although I think the steel isnt quite as good as mine went a little rusty whereas other makes didnt.
You dont need WILSON dies, or specialist dies from SINCLAIR Intl unless you want to get into very niche competition shooting. In which case you will probably spend 5k+ on the rifle and scope, but even then top shooters use standard dies in normal presses to good effect.
You dont need WILSON dies, or specialist dies from SINCLAIR Intl unless you want to get into very niche competition shooting. In which case you will probably spend 5k+ on the rifle and scope, but even then top shooters use standard dies in normal presses to good effect.
Correct. No need at all for Wilson or Sinclair. Just to clarify the old school Wilson dies aren't made any longer as an FL die are were for use in industrial power arbor presses. Not to be confused with today's Wilson neck size dies that as said above are of no benefit for hunting or "standard" factory rifles.
old man
Well-Known Member
Well some P-H rifles are OK and some aren't. I had two in .270 where cartridges fired in one would chamber in the other but not vice versa. In fact they almost looked pregnant in that crucial web area.
Bill, ex P-H, at Norman Clarke checked it out and advised it was, as he said, "a typical slack P-H chamber". If anyone was qualified to use that expression he certainly was. There it is.
Tightest chambers, from same period the 1980s and 1970s I've known tend to be on German made commercial rifles or Austrian rifles.
Bill, ex P-H, at Norman Clarke checked it out and advised it was, as he said, "a typical slack P-H chamber". If anyone was qualified to use that expression he certainly was. There it is.
Tightest chambers, from same period the 1980s and 1970s I've known tend to be on German made commercial rifles or Austrian rifles.
Interesting to see once again british stuff run down and German stuff talked up. See this on the car sites A LOT .................. oddly enough they never seem to be honest about the problems and expense of their supposedly superior Germanic stuff.
I take it that this Bill actually worked on the machines machining the parts?
I take it that this Bill actually worked on the machines machining the parts?
You won't find me talking down any British made side by side shot guns...but I wouldn't have a German made side-by-side shot gun as a gift.
Awful they are! I speak as I find and have found. The fact that "this Bill" is Norman Clark's go to P-H "man" is testimony enough.
Awful they are! I speak as I find and have found. The fact that "this Bill" is Norman Clark's go to P-H "man" is testimony enough.
Interesting ................... of course the chamber on my P-H 1200 Target rifle was fine thank you and there was never any need to keep 308 cases seperate from those shot through the Brno 601 in 308 but that was a long time back now. In fact thinking about it some of the cases went through the No4 Enfield 7.62x51 conversion first so they sized and chambered just fine in 3 differnt rifles. Have no idea as who did the No4 Conversion only remember it had the hammer forged barrel on it. Bought it from Powells of Reigate I think. Used it for a couple of years then decided to upgrade to a pukka target rifle.
Parker-Hale must have been a fair sized firm and have to wonder how many people worked on the production and assembly there and how many still work in "the trade".
Parker-Hale must have been a fair sized firm and have to wonder how many people worked on the production and assembly there and how many still work in "the trade".
Last edited:
No it's odd.
I am guessing that it may have been only on the rifles that were chambered for the long cartridges, .270 Winchester and the like rather than the shorter .308 Winchester?
I am guessing that it may have been only on the rifles that were chambered for the long cartridges, .270 Winchester and the like rather than the shorter .308 Winchester?
No its not odd and its not only PH rifles, as we have been asked countless times over and over again on this forum by novice reloaders, "why wont the once fired brass i bought chamber in my rifle even though i have full length resized it"
Ian.
I mainly use RCBS kit with some Lee thrown in, all bits and pieces I've picked up over the years but I have to say sould I be starting afresh I'd seriously look at the Lee ultimate dies sets.
The sets are only available in a limited number of calibres or like me you can make your own set up by purchasing the dies seperately.
Hope this helps. Chris.
The sets are only available in a limited number of calibres or like me you can make your own set up by purchasing the dies seperately.
Hope this helps. Chris.
old man
Well-Known Member
Buying once fired brass that may come from a variety of rifles, different chambers ( and is it really
once fired brass?), is asking for problems. Also novices sometimes screw the die too far down and cause an almost imperceptible bulge at the shoulder = no chambering.
Brass has a "memory" and if your chamber is banana shaped, or the chamber it was once-fired in...even if you FL resize it will spring back, albeit not as far.
Buy virgin brass, or shoot factory once in your rifle and you rarely get problems. Brass is a consumable- not something to be skimped on for the amount that most shoot. Buy well, neck size and dont overwork and you get more firings than during the life of initially cheaper once fired brass.
Similar threads
