Which weight barnes in .30-06?

[KimE]

The expanded frontal area depends on the contruction of the bullet more on copper than in c&c.

 

[Selous]

The expanded frontal area depends on the contruction of the bullet more on copper than in c&c.

Completely agree but we were talking about bullets of practically identical construction just differing calibre.

 

[Bowland blades]

This isn’t true bowland, Barnes don’t make a lightweight LRX, which is a bullet that is designed to expand down to 1600fps, your 100 grn 6.5 has a bc of .359, the 175grn .30 cal LRX has a bc of .508,from my 06 it’s a few fps under 2800fps not only will that bullet overtake yours pretty quickly due to retained speed from a highly efficient projectile, when it gets to the target it will have a lot more energy due to being almost double the weight, it will penetrate way more due to its higher sd, and it will open up to well over a .60 cal due to its better design. These are all facts. In my rifle, I still have the minimum expansion speed of 1600 fps out to about 850 yards. Way further than I have ever shot at deer.

Why not try reading what i actually stated . I Never mentioned the LRX but the tTSX i can confirm it expands out to 500 yards on reds although that is the max and its not as full as a 200 yard shot . That's not fired super fast but at 3300 fps its hardly sluggish ! Do i trust what manufactures state ? Nope ! I am stating what i have found and i have a heap of recovered bullets . The bullet often stops just back from the so called exit hole ( something i have rarely had with lead ! When the bullet has exited its often found if you look fallen to the ground .

 

[griff]

I used 120gn Barnes tac @ 3450 out of my 06, it killed thousands of deer over the years, and have shot some of the biggest galloway stags at distances I would not ever admit to on here.

 

[AGR]

and have shot some of the biggest galloway stags at distances I would not ever admit to on here.

Come on Griff, you can't leave me hanging.....
As someone who likes to creep up and assassinate my target, (and don't have ground for long distance shooting), I'm interested to know what distance people shoot at. I know in NZ they would occasionally shoot out to 1500m. My friend shot one at over 600m, 6ft holdover plus windage.

 

[griff]

over 100yds less than 1000yds.

 

[Heym SR20]

General rule of thumb is to choose a monolithic bullet that is a similar length to the lead cored bullet you currently use. So the 120 .308 monolithic bullet will be similar length to a 150gn lead core bullet.

The slightly less dense material and that many monolithics are land diameter with raised driving bands, rather full bore diameter all contribute to the bullet being longer for a similar bullet weight.

And for bullets of the same weight the ballistic coefficient of the monolithic will be higher, which given same muzzle velocity will result in better downrange ballistics - ie higher velocity and less bullet drop.

Many monolithics can also be driven to a higher muzzle velocity with the same sorts of pressures.

Finally given that monolithics stay in one piece you do not need a large heavy bullet to get sufficient penetration on bigger animals.

 

[Scarpa]

I found very tight groups out of my Sauer 30-06 with 150gn TTSX at the range. Looking forward to trying them out on deer.

 

[DocJohn]

Re LRXs: I wrote on the Ammunition Reloading and Ballistics thread yesterday that I’d had problems with a stag which I was surprised didn’t tumble after three chest shots but walked off calmly with his group and dropped 25 metres away. Admittedly only my trusted 6.5x55 not 30-06, and at 245 metres (that’s extreme for me), but my home loads are exiting at 2800fps with a 127gn LRX. I found two small exit wounds suggesting poor expansion.
I would expect better performance than this, even from my lightweight calibre at a distance. Any hope with Hornady’s ECX?

 

[Acm]

Re LRXs: I wrote on the Ammunition Reloading and Ballistics thread yesterday that I’d had problems with a stag which I was surprised didn’t tumble after three chest shots but walked off calmly with his group and dropped 25 metres away. Admittedly only my trusted 6.5x55 not 30-06, and at 245 metres (that’s extreme for me), but my home loads are exiting at 2800fps with a 127gn LRX. I found two small exit wounds suggesting poor expansion.
I would expect better performance than this, even from my lightweight calibre at a distance. Any hope with Hornady’s ECX?

25 meters wouldn’t worry me in the slightest, I’d say that’s pretty normal for a stag to be fair. Sounds like a good load to me, I’d keep going with them!

 

[DocJohn]

Thanks for that. LRXs expand down to 1600fps. I’ve looked up the ballistics on my round. It would be doing only 1525fps which explains the tiny exit wounds and no sign of shock on impact.

 

[half-baked]

Here's a list of minimum recommended impact velocities of a few of their models in ft/s. Obtained from Barnes a few years back.

7mm

120 TTSX = 1700

139 LRX = 1800

140 TTSX = 1800

145 LRX = 2000

150 TTSX = 1500


.308

130 TTSX = 1800

150 TTSX = 2000

165 TTSX = 1800

168 TTSX = 1500

175 LRX = 1600


.223

50 TTSX = 1900

55 TTSX = 1900

62 TTSX = 1900

.338

185 TTSX = 1800

 

[half-baked]

When talking about non- lead bullets in general, it is prudent to keep in mind differences in bullet design and alloys used. They've come a long way in the past two or three decades.

There are now copper bullets that reliably open at subsonic velocities. All projectiles made of copper are definitely not the same.

 

[DocJohn]

Your input is much appreciated. Thank you! Hornady have replied to my query saying I need 2000fps terminal velocity for their ECX, but they didn’t specify which weight/calibre. That doesn’t seem like the rapidly expanding product implied in their advertising.
Doesn’t real world deer stslking need a “softer” bullet? I’ve said before that I don’t fancy a fragmenting bullet on edible game, even though the Germans have used them for years.

 

[Acm]

Thanks for that. LRXs expand down to 1600fps. I’ve looked up the ballistics on my round. It would be doing only 1525fps which explains the tiny exit wounds and no sign of shock on impact.

Sorry but how do you manage to drop down to 1525 fps from 2800 in only 245 metres??

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Here's a list of minimum recommended impact velocities of a few of their models in ft/s. Obtained from Barnes a few years back.

7mm

120 TTSX = 1700

139 LRX = 1800

140 TTSX = 1800

145 LRX = 2000

150 TTSX = 1500


.308

130 TTSX = 1800

150 TTSX = 2000

165 TTSX = 1800

168 TTSX = 1500

175 LRX = 1600


.223

50 TTSX = 1900

55 TTSX = 1900

62 TTSX = 1900

.338

185 TTSX = 1800

Worth bearing in mind Barnes’ definition of expansion is the petals have began to peel back, this does not mean it has got larger than calibre sized in diameter, which is important as far as the terminal effect you should expect to see.

This should hopefully illustrate what I’m saying (not my photo):



For this reason with all TTSX bullets I try to keep the velocity above 2200 FPS, as this is where personally I have found the terminal performance seen in deer drops off and the wound channels begin to narrow.

Given the bullets I have experienced this narrowing with (6.5mm 100 TTSX and .30 130 TTSX) which both occurred at around 2200 FPS and your data above, it would appear the Barnes is losing its terminal effectiveness in the last 400 FPS of their stated expansion (based off the 130).

I would suggest with NLA if people wish to push to further distances than the 2200 FPS can give you with a Barnes bullet, then looking into fragmenting options with higher BCs, such as the Yew Tree TLR would be a good idea, as they are more suited to the job and will give better terminal performance at a longer range. This is the route I’ve taken with my hill rifle, using the 148 TLR in my WSM to provide a very lethal combination even when ranges are ‘extended’.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Thanks for that. LRXs expand down to 1600fps. I’ve looked up the ballistics on my round. It would be doing only 1525fps which explains the tiny exit wounds and no sign of shock on impact.

Not sure how you’ve reached that figure - based off a 2800 FPS muzzle velocity and a 127 LRX using an applied ballistic custom curve (usually very accurate inside 800m without truing) I’m getting a terminal velocity at 245m of 2289 FPS.

What I would say is with that small of a bullet I wouldn’t necessarily expect to see a huge exit in the carcass, just expanded bullet diameter (0.4-0.5” ish), with the temporary wound cavity and related permanent wound channel having effected the first 8-12 inches of soft tissue in the wound tract.
The more telling story on bullet performance is seen in the gralloch generally - What was the gralloch like, was there signs of expansion within the lungs/heart?

 

[luv2safari]

The barnes TSX and TTSX are tipped and not tipped (extra T referring to the polymer tip) lead free bullets. Generally you want to go down a fair bit of bullet weight with lead free rounds to see them perform to their best, sounds counterintuitive but it’s true. Faster lighter projectile creates the intended expansion.
Andy, no personal experience with 3006 but with .308 a 130gr was plenty so would assume the advice above about 150-160gr would be pretty spot on for most Uk stuff.

As a TTSX bullet fan and a 60 year '06 shooter I am with you all the way. A 165 TTSX will give you the penetration of the conventional 180RN and shoot flatter with less recoil. Win-win

 

[luv2safari]

150 should be great in a 06. As to TTSX or TSX buy what you like or can get hold of. The tipped version is supposed to open a little faster.

It is and shoots accurately with any common twist rate.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

150gn TTSX doing about 2850-2950 fps would be perfect in my opinion.

But………………

If it was me with a 30-06 I would go lapua naturalis