Why the Uk is a better country to own a gun in than the United States

[dogone]

A thought from Canada: we seem to be somewhere between the US and UK. We need an 8 hr firearm course to get a licence to buy as many guns and as much ammo as you want. We have HUGE public lands available for hunting and easy access to private.
Pistols are common but restricted to range use.
Tens of thousands of Americans come here to hunt each year. It is much harder for a Canadian to take a gun to the US. This is inspite of the supposed firearm freedoms of the US

 

[LeftHandGuy]

It is much harder for a Canadian to take a gun to the US. This is inspite of the supposed firearm freedoms of the US

Really? I'm surprised by this because I thought it was fairly easy to bring firearms from the UK to the US as a visitor, and as it turns out, not very much harder to do so as an immigrant.

And I am speaking here as someone who did the former and would have done the latter had I realized how little was actually involved.

What issues have you encountered?

 

[dogone]

You can show up at the Canadian border with up to 10 rifles /shotguns. You may have your forms filled out or do it there. Serial numbers matched and 25$ fee paid and off you go. You can also do it with pistols but more involved.I am an outfitter and have had guests do this hundred of times , no problem. ALSO: a non resident may take the same 8 hour course as a resident. Upon passing he will be issued a Firearm Aquisition Certificate. Good for five years and allows buying guns and ammo. I know several people who have done this.
When I need to take a firearm to the US I need to forward all info to the FBI. This must be done far in advance. You CANNOT do this at border. Good for one year. You can not under any circumstances buy guns or ammo you did not bring with you.
A friend has just given up trying to take his firearms to Montana to shoot prairie dogs. Some of his bolt action rifles were on a list prohibiting entry. In spite of being built in the US.
All Canadian info is easily available on the internet. You can download the forms.
So you decide which way is easier and simpler

 

[simgre]

Quite frankly I can’t be bothered to read the thread as the title and the OP is frankly poppycock!!

Perhaps many on here now have not suffered the indignity of having personal property confiscated by the State because of crimes committed by someone else. Well I have, several times now, unfortunately.

Likewise, the snotty tone taken in the first post is so ill informed. The Rights so jealously guarded by Americans were never initially an “American ideology”, but a British one. Rights based in English Common Law and enshrined in the British Bill of Rights of 1689. Now utterly eroded by mendacious politicians and a weak, scared electorate.

Attitude now prevails that if something goes bump in the night call three nines and hopefully a slip of a 21 year girl with a metal stick and 106 gram can of chemical
Incapacitatent spray will arrive before your lawn mower is stolen or your family robbed.

The authorities know exactly what you have and where you keep it. When they want it, they’ll come and get it. Americans have seen this is places where the English Common Law process operated as with them, but the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have demonstrated that to blame the item rather than the perpetrator gives five second sound bites and vilifies a whole innocent section of society.

We have a 56 year old Principal Act in regards to firearms legislation and probably another 100 pieces of primary legislation. There’s a re-write on the horizon given the rumours and conjecture of the last few years, they may very well come for what you own next. I doubt solace will be taken in the conceited view that “we’re better than them”…!!

 

[dogone]

Really? I'm surprised by this because I thought it was fairly easy to bring firearms from the UK to the US as a visitor, and as it turns out, not very much harder to do so as an immigrant.

And I am speaking here as someone who did the former and would have done the latter had I realized how little was actually involved.

What issues have you encountered?

More information. As I said , I am an outfitter. At our annual convention I meet hundreds of other outfittters. People bringing guns in to Canada is a non issue. However occasionally an outfitter has the opportunity to hunt in the states. It is always an ordeal of paperwork. ALSO ; many more Americans come here as free lance hunters. No issue for them , no need to be sponsored.

Canada is far from perfect regarding firearms but America has a long way to catch up in this situation.

 

[Blaser Ash]

Quite frankly I can’t be bothered to read the thread as the title and the OP is frankly poppycock!!

Perhaps many on here now have not suffered the indignity of having personal property confiscated by the State because of crimes committed by someone else. Well I have, several times now, unfortunately.

Likewise, the snotty tone taken in the first post is so ill informed. The Rights so jealously guarded by Americans were never initially an “American ideology”, but a British one. Rights based in English Common Law and enshrined in the British Bill of Rights of 1689. Now utterly eroded by mendacious politicians and a weak, scared electorate.

Attitude now prevails that if something goes bump in the night call three nines and hopefully a slip of a 21 year girl with a metal stick and 106 gram can of chemical
Incapacitatent spray will arrive before your lawn mower is stolen or your family robbed.

The authorities know exactly what you have and where you keep it. When they want it, they’ll come and get it. Americans have seen this is places where the English Common Law process operated as with them, but the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have demonstrated that to blame the item rather than the perpetrator gives five second sound bites and vilifies a whole innocent section of society.

We have a 56 year old Principal Act in regards to firearms legislation and probably another 100 pieces of primary legislation. There’s a re-write on the horizon given the rumours and conjecture of the last few years, they may very well come for what you own next. I doubt solace will be taken in the conceited view that “we’re better than them”…!!

If you actually bother to read the thread, you might learn something. I certainly did. You will also discover that the tone of the contributors was respectful and that the only other snotty post is yours.

 

[simgre]

As sanctimonious as your first post...

 

[Blaser Ash]

Quite frankly I can’t be bothered to read the thread as the title and the OP is frankly poppycock!!

Perhaps many on here now have not suffered the indignity of having personal property confiscated by the State because of crimes committed by someone else. Well I have, several times now, unfortunately.

Likewise, the snotty tone taken in the first post is so ill informed. The Rights so jealously guarded by Americans were never initially an “American ideology”, but a British one. Rights based in English Common Law and enshrined in the British Bill of Rights of 1689. Now utterly eroded by mendacious politicians and a weak, scared electorate.

Attitude now prevails that if something goes bump in the night call three nines and hopefully a slip of a 21 year girl with a metal stick and 106 gram can of chemical
Incapacitatent spray will arrive before your lawn mower is stolen or your family robbed.

The authorities know exactly what you have and where you keep it. When they want it, they’ll come and get it. Americans have seen this is places where the English Common Law process operated as with them, but the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have demonstrated that to blame the item rather than the perpetrator gives five second sound bites and vilifies a whole innocent section of society.

We have a 56 year old Principal Act in regards to firearms legislation and probably another 100 pieces of primary legislation. There’s a re-write on the horizon given the rumours and conjecture of the last few years, they may very well come for what you own next. I doubt solace will be taken in the conceited view that “we’re better than them”…!!

If you actually bother to read the thread, you might learn something. I certainly did. You will also discover that the tone of the contributors was respectful and that the only other snotty post is yours.

As sanctimonious as your first post...

snap

 

[simgre]

No, I was certainly more dismissive than sanctimonious…

 

[Blaser Ash]

Fair enough

 

[Blaser Ash]

No, I was certainly more dismissive than sanctimonious…

I might have said condescending, but that would have been rude.

 

[Dave_45]

I think the freedom to buy what I wanted when I wanted in America would be pretty nice.








I’d also be bankrupt after a month

 

[alberta boy]

I think the freedom to buy what I wanted when I wanted in America would be pretty nice.








I’d also be bankrupt after a month

It can get expensive , if you keep all of them . I have my tried and true hunting rifles and shotguns , those I keep . The majority of the firearms in my safes are transient . I buy something because it's interesting , if I like it , I keep it . If it doesn't fulfill any particular need , I move it on and buy something else . My safes are actually locking revolving doors . I can't own them all at once , but I can own all of them at least once ....................... I'm a gun whore .

AB

 

[NP435]

The purpose of this thread is to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.

UK advantages

In the UK you get permission for a moderator/suppressor for pretty much any rifle without additional cost. In the US you have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every mod you own and - horror of horrors - you have to undergo background checks. This may seem like a minor advantage but I ruined my hearing in my left ear from shooting an unmoderated 17 Remington when I was in my twenties.

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun. In the US, everyone has a gun.

In the UK firearms are locked up. In the US firearms are keep handy at all times for “home defence”.

In the UK people in gun shops know a lot about guns and shooting, whereas in the US working in a gun shop is just another job and I often find the person serving me knows very little about the products they sell.

In the UK there is no bag limit. If I want to shoot 1000 deer (in the appropriate season) I can. In the US, there will be a bag limit or tag limiting you often to only one animal.

I can go on, but it’s your turn. Also hopefully some of our friends across the pond can tell me why I’m wrong.

I must burst your bubble, not everyone has a gun, and those who do may or may not keep one handy for defense and can be permitted to carry a concealed handgun. Many who work in gun shops are very knowledgeable, some should be selling ice cream. Bag limits exist with good reason deer and many other specie were shot to near extinction at one time. In my state I can own what I want, quantity or cartridge including full auto and suppressed. Then there is the serious people with legitimate reason comment. Our system of laws based on the Constitution gives me the inherent right to own and use firearms. Some however should not, the mentally ill, convicted felons and those with domestic violence convictions. Our systems are very different neither is perfect or better.

 

[Blaser Ash]

I must burst your bubble, not everyone has a gun, and those who do may or may not keep one handy for defense and can be permitted to carry a concealed handgun. Many who work in gun shops are very knowledgeable, some should be selling ice cream. Bag limits exist with good reason deer and many other specie were shot to near extinction at one time. In my state I can own what I want, quantity or cartridge including full auto and suppressed. Then there is the serious people with legitimate reason comment. Our system of laws based on the Constitution gives me the inherent right to own and use firearms. Some however should not, the mentally ill, convicted felons and those with domestic violence convictions. Our systems are very different neither is perfect or better.

Thank you, NP435. Your last sentence is a fine summary of where we have got to so far with this thread.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Double taxation too, you’ll be paying both fed/state taxes and U.K. taxes then!! Ouch

No things don’t work that way, you pretty much have to pick a country for tax residency.

 

[ContinShots]

The purpose of this thread is to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.

UK advantages

In the UK you get permission for a moderator/suppressor for pretty much any rifle without additional cost. In the US you have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every mod you own and - horror of horrors - you have to undergo background checks. This may seem like a minor advantage but I ruined my hearing in my left ear from shooting an unmoderated 17 Remington when I was in my twenties.

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun. In the US, everyone has a gun.

In the UK firearms are locked up. In the US firearms are keep handy at all times for “home defence”.

In the UK people in gun shops know a lot about guns and shooting, whereas in the US working in a gun shop is just another job and I often find the person serving me knows very little about the products they sell.

In the UK there is no bag limit. If I want to shoot 1000 deer (in the appropriate season) I can. In the US, there will be a bag limit or tag limiting you often to only one animal.

I can go on, but it’s your turn. Also hopefully some of our friends across the pond can tell me why I’m wrong.

If it weren't for the preposterous handgun ban and the fact politicians of all parties are utterly ignorant of firearms and use the shooting community as whipping boys, meaning the legislative framework vulnerable to knee-jerk changes or is in danger of being changed every election cycle or so, I would actually be fairly content with the UK system. Bans don't work, they just persecute the law abiding and the criminals still just use whatever firearms they want, mostly smuggled in or made in a back alley workshop. If the UK stopped with it's ignorant obsession with bans and ceased blaming responsible firearms owners for the crimes of drug gangs and organised crime in England's big cities, things really wouldn't be all that bad in the UK.

 

[ContinShots]

You don't 'just happen' to own a gun in the UK. It's a massive pain in the ass that takes a load of time and effort. In the US, you can pick up a firearm on a whim, at least by comparison.

It's really not that hard at all for many of us. Getting FAC wasn't a big deal at all. I joined a club, completed my probationary membership in 6 months, applied for my certificate immediately thereafter, it was issued in a little over 2 months with all the slots I asked for and I had 6 firearms within 12 months of the first time I picked up a gun (with a few more empty slots for more guns when my wallet has cooled down). Sure, some people do have problems and it can take longer, but for many people with a clean record and no serious medical issues, you can get FAC very easily. In comparison, my American cousin who began shooting around the same time as me acquired less guns in that 12 month period and was still waiting for his suppressor tax stamp in the time I'd bought four of them. The UK is terrible for ignorant politicians pushing knee jerk, in effective and outrageously expensive bans, but when you set that aside, firearms ownership here is not nearly as bad as some make out and I'm also perfectly happy living in a country where they're not used for self-defence.

 

[Alistair]

It's really not that hard at all for many of us. Getting FAC wasn't a big deal at all. I joined a club, completed my probationary membership in 6 months, applied for my certificate immediately thereafter, it was issued in a little over 2 months with all the slots I asked for and I had 6 firearms within 12 months of the first time I picked up a gun (with a few more empty slots for more guns when my wallet has cooled down). Sure, some people do have problems and it can take longer, but for many people with a clean record and no serious medical issues, you can get FAC very easily. In comparison, my American cousin who began shooting around the same time as me acquired less guns in that 12 month period and was still waiting for his suppressor tax stamp in the time I'd bought four of them. The UK is terrible for ignorant politicians pushing knee jerk, in effective and outrageously expensive bans, but when you set that aside, firearms ownership here is not nearly as bad as some make out and I'm also perfectly happy living in a country where they're not used for self-defence.

My UK FAC experience was basically the same as yours. About 9 months from joining the club to having an FAC. Then about 2-3weeks for each variation or a new gun slot.

Compared to the US, that really is 'hard' though.

I can go out today after work and buy whatever I want (except moderators and full auto stuff, which might take a year). It'll be in my hands in 5 minutes, maybe 30 if the background check software is slow. No home visit, no interviews, no fees, no references, no requirement for secure storage, no drama. No requirement for me to have so much as touched a gun before.

That is enough of a difference that the UK system does represent a barrier to the 'casual' buyer. You're going to need good reason, you're going to need to spend money, you're going to need to spend time and you're going to need to prove that you have good reason to own a gun.

Ultimately it's enough hassle that you're really gonna want that gun to be willing to deal with the process and by the time you have it, you'll have used firearms before.

That 6 months probation is quite a lot of firearms safety training, as is a couple years following a buddy around his permission, or a coupled of guided outings with an estate rifle, whilst even DSC1, a decent analogue for the 'absolute bare minimum experience for a deer calibre grant' in many instances, has some firearms handling and safety coaching. Without having some experience, you'll struggle to justify an FAC and so (at least some) experience is a requirement for firearm ownership. Not so here.

Personally I'll take the rare incompetent at the range over the UK system in a heartbeat, but it is a factor.

 

[Cootmeurer]

My UK FAC experience was basically the same as yours. About 9 months from joining the club to having an FAC. Then about 2-3weeks for each variation or a new gun slot.

Compared to the US, that really is 'hard' though.

I can go out today after work and buy whatever I want (except moderators and full auto stuff, which might take a year). It'll be in my hands in 5 minutes, maybe 30 if the background check software is slow. No home visit, no interviews, no fees, no references, no requirement for secure storage, no drama. No requirement for me to have so much as touched a gun before.

That is enough of a difference that the UK system does represent a barrier to the 'casual' buyer. You're going to need good reason, you're going to need to spend money, you're going to need to spend time and you're going to need to prove that you have good reason to own a gun.

Couple of points, one negative one positive.
First the positive, lately the approval process for moderators has improved dramatically with turn around times in weeks rather than months, and I have even heard of a few that were days….

Now the negative, we do have issues with hunter recruitment in the US often due to what you mention above about no casual gun buyers. If I have a clean record I can buy a gun in an hour or less, and the hunting license for small game or archery deer in the same amount of time. However, if I want to hunt big game it requires application for tags, and awaiting a drawing - and the process is often convoluted and not logical. Buying a waterfowl license is easy, but complying with the law is a challenge for a newcomer, with bag limits that vary greatly by species, and sometimes portion of the season. If a newbie wants to learn they either need a mentor or plan on getting a ticket for a legal violation as they sort the regulations. And regulations are set by each state, and in my case I currently have licenses for 5 states and must keep 5 sets of regulations in mind.