What are the benefits of having DSC 2 ?

[Mungo]

Been trying to resist the urge to jump in...

...anyway: roe are very selective feeders, targetting whatever is currently available with the highest nutrient content. They do eat grass, but generally only the actively growing tips of fresh growth. They are much more dependent on browsing (ie. Eating leaves off shrubs) than the other deer.

To say they 'eat grass' is not untrue, but is misleading. It's like saying we 'eat cabbage'.

In general, they aren't really a threat to pasture in the way that the herd living species can be. They can be a problem in certain types of crop, and definitely make a mess in young forestry. But they neither reach the population density nor have the dietary requirements to justify agressive culling on pasture.

As for DSC2 - I think it's inevitable that it'll be compulsory to stalk unaccompanied, so might as well do it. I managed mine in 3 days for about £500 (accommodation and travel costs included). And shot an antlered doe...

 

[TikkaFan]

"Roe Deer: Conservation of a Native Species" is by Richard Prior? I am not at home, otherwise I would check my copy, but you seem to have just cut and pasted incorrectly from a search result.

If you don't have references why not simply say so? Your introduction on the Site said that you were here to learn - which is something we're all here to do. Perhaps now is the time to put that into practice? People here are very open in terms of sharing their knowledge and experience. It's something I have certainly benefited from and I'd encourage others to do likewise. Isn't it better to gain knowledge rather than dispute just for the sake of it?

Most reports and journals have to be paid for but well worth it most of the time , the two here are quite interesting .

Impact of season, habitat and research techniques on diet composition of roe deer (Capreolus capreolus): a review

Grazing and Conservation Management - Google Books

 

[willie_gunn]

Most reports and journals have to be paid for but well worth it most of the time , the two here are quite interesting .

Impact of season, habitat and research techniques on diet composition of roe deer (Capreolus capreolus): a review

Grazing and Conservation Management - Google Books

They are indeed quite interesting.

So much so that the first link you've given is to the same study I quoted from directly back in post #65. The website that is accessed from your link will not let you see the conclusions without paying, but if you are suitably qualified and you register you can access the full report here: Academia.edu - Share research. This is the study which concluded that "From the yearly weighted averages it is clear that halfwoody plants, deciduous browse, dwarf shrubs and cultivated plants are the most important food items for roe deer. In combination they form more than two thirds of the diet".

The second is a study that focuses primarily on grazing on reclaimed wetlands in the Netherlands, particularly the Oostvaardersplassen nature reserve. This may not necessarily form a direct comparison to the natural ecology we are considering here in the UK but, nonetheless, the conclusions show - much like the John Jackson study also in post #65 - that the diet of roe is clearly season dependent. "In Winter, grasses were also important forage for roe deer" and goes on to state "The diets of red deer and roe deer in the winter period consisted of 60-80% and 50-70% grasses respectively. In spring and summer, dicots and browse were preferred: twigs and young leaves from Salix species and Sambucus were the most important forage." The addition of bold to the quote is mine, but I think it's relevant.

So yes, the reports are quite interesting. The fact that neither of them supports your statement to MS that "guess what, scientists have already found they eat mainly grass if they have a choice" is also quite interesting.

I can't see that continuing this dialogue is going to deliver anything fruitful - for us or for the wider audience - though by all means continue digging if you so wish

 

[Mungo]

I could also provide some of my own data to more or less confirm the above.

One interesting twist is that they will focus on grass in very specific circumstances - namely very intensively managed grass that's watered, mowed and fertilised frequently (ie. Grass that's growing rapidly and very nutrient rich).

And this is most often seen on golf courses...

Even then, come spring they tend to switch to things like elder and various herbs.

 

[willie_gunn]

I could also provide some of my own data to more or less confirm the above.

One interesting twist is that they will focus on grass in very specific circumstances - namely very intensively managed grass that's watered, mowed and fertilised frequently (ie. Grass that's growing rapidly and very nutrient rich).

And this is most often seen on golf courses...

Even then, come spring they tend to switch to things like elder and various herbs.

Interesting. I hadn't put the two together, but for anyone familiar with Stonehenge there are fields on the opposite side of the A303 that have been used for rearing pigs. I was down there just before Christmas and the pigs have been moved but the resulting grass looked almost as though someone had painted the fields with the brightest shade of Emerald Green they could find.

We drove past and took the next turning South, then to spend several minutes watching some roe browsing their way through fields of stubble. I'll have to check again the next time I drive past.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Just to avoid the bitch fight, err what was this thread about? Oh yeah, DSC2.

I haven't got it, mainly because I don't feel I am ready to take it. But I'm getting close. I may even remember what the various nodes and thingies are called one day. which will be useful.

will it be useful for me? At this stage I don't think so. It will be nice to have as it will show that I have learnt a lot over the last few years, so I will get a lot of personal satisfaction. Oh and I enjoyed doing dsc1 because it taught me a lot and I didn't have an old hand to show me the ropes.
will it be useful in the future? I think so. Whilst many small farmers don't know about it and don't care it would appear from a lot of posts on here that many are getting educated to it. Whether it is good or bad is down to the opinion of the person but it would seem that it will become more prevalent in the future so I think it will be useful for me to have because if the opportunity arises them I would be annoyed to miss out on it because I didn't have the cert.

Now if I can find an AW local to me who will take me out on his land for 5 shillings and be grateful that I will pay him that much.........

 

[baguio]

Now if I can find an AW local to me who will take me out on his land for 5 shillings and be grateful that I will pay him that much.........

And where is local to you Singing Stalker? I'm afraid that whilst I can no longer help you personally, there may just be someone living near you who could? Putting a huge county down as your location does little to help your cause I'm afraid! The nearest large town would be far more useful.
PS, it doesn't need to be an AW either! Any DSC2 qualified stalker and plenty who know their stuff but haven't done DSC2 should be able to help you out surely?

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I'm near Andover. I leave it at Hampshire because I'm famous and don't want people to recognise me or know where I live. This post will self destruct in 15 seconds.............

 

[Bandit Country]

And shot an antlered doe...

Any photos?

... and staying off topic, there's an interesting article in the latest BDS Deer magazine on brambles and why some get hammered by deer and others not. Apparently there are hundreds of species of brambles in the UK alone - 88 have been identified in Suffolk! Who knew? In any event, deer demonstrably discriminate in their feeding on brambles. I wonder if the same is true of grasses?

As for DSC2 it certainly helps to demonstrate you are reasonably competent in culling deer. Mine was paid for with £150 Individual Learning Account ... but it was a while ago!

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Just to avoid the bitch fight, err what was this thread about? Oh yeah, DSC2.

I should possibly point out that my post was in jest and to get back on topic , brambles aside, which is very interesting (the brambles that is......), and not to enrage or cause Ill feeling as happens with so many badly typed replies. If offence caused please accept apologies and beer should we ever meet.

 

[Taff]

As for DSC2 - I think it's inevitable that it'll be compulsory to stalk unaccompanied, so might as well do it. I managed mine in 3 days for about £500 (accommodation and travel costs included). And shot an antlered doe...

are deer rifles more dangerous

 

[cjm1066]

As an Approved Witness, to date I have received a bottle of scotch and a tin of powder for witnessing stalking on the candidates ground and/or our syndicate ground.

I have enjoyed the experience. If you are purchasing stalking the stalk is what you pay for and you would be doing that anyway, if a professional stalker then changes £20-40 for the paper work I can understand that.

 

[Mungo]

As for DSC2 - I think it's inevitable that it'll be compulsory to stalk unaccompanied, so might as well do it. I managed mine in 3 days for about £500 (accommodation and travel costs included). And shot an antlered doe...

are deer rifles more dangerous

Eh?

More dangerous than what? I think I'm missing something?

 

[Mungo]

Any photos?

I do have photos, but sadly not taken by me. I'll ask the photographer if I can post them on here.

 

[Mungo]

Ok - for those interested, I've put a few photos up in Diseases etc section.

 

[Bandit Country]

Ok - for those interested, I've put a few photos up in Diseases etc section.

TVM - fascinating.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Eh?

More dangerous than what? I think I'm missing something?

I think he may mean it is desirable by the authorities or whoever that you have, for example a Dsc for deer but there is no requirement for the same rifle for foxing.

 

[theredfox]

Is it no like school or the highways code, a deer shot bsc holder or one who has not is still dead, do you make a mistake from time to time just as have I, what about stalkers in the past a lot of them has forgotten more than we will ever know, what ever floats your boat comes to mind

 

[Taff]

Eh?

More dangerous than what? I think I'm missing something?

you are implying that you will need dsc2 to stalk alone, yet If I was after other quarry I could go unaccompanied, no sense at all
The next cert to come along will be compulsory safety training for all firearms/ shotgun applicants, this has already been discussed , and I predict that at renewal time, applicants will be required to carry out the course, this will enable all land owners/ shooters to show a duty of care, this will most probably be added to DSC 1 ( they will not want to lose out )for those interested in deer, but hopefully will mean that Certs will be open from day one, and no silly calibre restrictions.
so come on BASC, CA, etc lets get it sorted once and for all .

 

[baguio]

you are implying that you will need dsc2 to stalk alone, yet If I was after other quarry I could go unaccompanied, no sense at all

Totally sensible in my book Taff. Deer carry and spread diseases that can shut down the whole county or even several counties if you transport a diseased carcass across them. Foxes and AOLQ don't (Please don't get pedantic here). There's a lot more to DSC2 than firearms safety. Stop being so blinkered and anti about something that is highly desirable to have. IMO, any responsible stalker who is passionate about his hobby should be training towards being the best he can be and that includes the paperwork to prove it. Sure he can go and do a large game handling certificate but why do things by halves? What is there to be frightened about except perhaps knowing you may be found out to be not as good as you tell everyone you are (not aimed at anyone in particular I should add)? Even then it's just a case of getting a bit more experience and then coming back for another try! It's coming so we may as well embrace it!