2 dead red deer in Newton Aycliffe game dealers today

[Mannlicher_Stu]

We're not talking about someone coming out for a jolly and getting a cull buck. We're talking about a smallish area that might need a couple of hundred hinds shot in the 3 months they're in season. You seem to be blinded by the romance of the paying client days. They are a good source of income and they are a good starting point for getting cull figures, but sometimes it just simply isn't practical.

For example, I planted a 30 hectare site which was virtually wiped out over a winter. 30 Ha @ 2600 trees per Ha so around £4.5k to plant. If its after year 2 it had been sprayed at a cost of around £4.5k plus maybe 2 beat ups and the price of the trees, which I can't remember of the top of my head. Say, for easy counting, thats a total cost of between £13-£15k wiped out on a 30 hectare site that deer are only seen on in the last half hour of light and the first half hour in the morning. And then you could replant and it could all happen over again. If you were the manager would you be happy to take this risk because someone is willing to pay £100 to come and shoot a buck on it? No, you'd limit your risk by shooting it constantly for the first few years till the trees get away. Possibly with out of season and night shooting as an aid.

Someone asked about damage later after the first few years. It is quite limited once the trees are established.

Ohh so very true
My problem is with smaller numbers which involve Roe I counted 18 does on a replanted area that consists of 118 acres this week and they need to be reduced.
I have another area that felling is taking place consisting of 5000acres of which 2000 have been cropped but are not being replanted where in one morning I saw 28 does alone this a serious problem god this is before the May drop cycle so god knows what problem I have now if ratios are correct 28x2 56 +original 28 I am looking at min of 84 this is not counting the bucks which we have to reduce which are on the same patch of ground pushing for territory, Legally cant do anything about the situation till November unless I am authorised to cull out of season by which time they will be running the Streets of Dumfries and not my fault.

 

[steyr]

i think the thing is with me Ive limited time and money and could only get up there when Ive got holidays to take,so i would be of no use as a permanent help. i would however love the chance of cheap hind stalking/culling, 1,2,3 days or even a week!!! to pay to help out see how its done, learn! and maybe have a few shots myself etc! get involved from start to Finnish!! i think this would be a great day or two or even a week! i suppose i could just book some hind days but that would be savage amusement to me,theres a hind shoot it,sit back drink tea watch people do the hard bit,pay stalker/guide,jolly good show!! so for the professional stalker why not have "two bites of the cherry" take paying guest out say Monday Tuesday,with paying help (thats on holls) may be catch up on cull on Wednesday,paying help may get to shoot one ore two,and so on!! i personally think its win! win! win!1, hind stalker gets his stalk!! 2,cull figures are met,helper has learned/helped in cull,etc. 3 professional stalker has had an extra pair of hands and more money in his pocket than would normally of had!!.. and so it came to be!!...the cull figures was met, and there was no need to shoot at night and/or out of season!! and everybody lived happily ever after!!! except the deer..who are still arguing over whats best to be shot with!!...remmington or satyr mannlicher....308 or..30-06!!! but thats another thread,in another chapter,for another day!

 

[JC275]

We're not talking about someone coming out for a jolly and getting a cull buck. We're talking about a smallish area that might need a couple of hundred hinds shot in the 3 months they're in season. You seem to be blinded by the romance of the paying client days. They are a good source of income and they are a good starting point for getting cull figures, but sometimes it just simply isn't practical.

For example, I planted a 30 hectare site which was virtually wiped out over a winter. 30 Ha @ 2600 trees per Ha so around £4.5k to plant. If its after year 2 it had been sprayed at a cost of around £4.5k plus maybe 2 beat ups and the price of the trees, which I can't remember of the top of my head. Say, for easy counting, thats a total cost of between £13-£15k wiped out on a 30 hectare site that deer are only seen on in the last half hour of light and the first half hour in the morning. And then you could replant and it could all happen over again. If you were the manager would you be happy to take this risk because someone is willing to pay £100 to come and shoot a buck on it? No, you'd limit your risk by shooting it constantly for the first few years till the trees get away. Possibly with out of season and night shooting as an aid.

Someone asked about damage later after the first few years. It is quite limited once the trees are established.

Thats an interesting example Scotty, a cull of two hundred hinds off 30 ha in three months. Using random figures, thats 200 x 50kgs @ £1/kg = £10,000. It will be a while before the trees make you £10,000... maybe deer aren't so bad after all.

JC

 

[scottybhoy88]

Thats an interesting example Scotty, a cull of two hundred hinds off 30 ha in three months. Using random figures, thats 200 x 50kgs @ £1/kg = £10,000. It will be a while before the trees make you £10,000... maybe deer aren't so bad after all.

JC

What is the objective of forestry? To grow trees. Not only for profit but also to fullfill the countries obligations to reduce CO2 emmisions.

The FC and other forest management groups are wanting the forest to grow, not have it as a pasture for deer.

And as for your £10k figure. Your forgetting to deduct the price of a rifle, ammunition, a vehicle, quad bike, fuel, wages, clothing etc

Some of the comments on this thread are getting beyond ridiculous.

 

[JC275]

What is the objective of forestry? To grow trees. Not only for profit but also to fullfill the countries obligations to reduce CO2 emmisions.

The FC and other forest management groups are wanting the forest to grow, not have it as a pasture for deer.

And as for your £10k figure. Your forgetting to deduct the price of a rifle, ammunition, a vehicle, quad bike, fuel, wages, clothing etc

Some of the comments on this thread are getting beyond ridiculous.

Sorry Scotty, I was just teasing! Having sold £32,000 worth of venison this year I do have an idea of the costs but thanks for pointing it out. I'll put my serious head back on and start crying again now. JC

 

[steyr]

Sorry Scotty, I was just teasing! Having sold £32,000 worth of venison this year I do have an idea of the costs but thanks for pointing it out. I'll put my serious head back on and start crying again now. JC

and i bet they were all shot in season too!!

 

[JC275]

and i bet they were all shot in season too!!

I have to confess, I did kill one deer out of season last year, a fallow doe that I ran over with a flail mower but she didn't feature in the venison sales total!

 

[steyr]

I have to confess, I did kill one deer out of season last year, a fallow doe that I ran over with a flail mower but she didn't feature in the venison sales total!

road kill does not count,i knew a man of your caliber would have his cull figures under control!!

 

[mickthebrick]

Never seen a flail mower....Is this one?

 

[steyr]

Never seen a flail mower....Is this one?

with that you could create your own ride through the trees,and shoot the deer too!!

 

[bambislayer]

It's fine, all these guys coming and helping out, will they do it out of season?
How mutch are they willing to pay for the oportunity?
are they qualified to drive an argo or quad?
How do you assess their suitability before they arrive? It's a bit like the old internet dating game when you ask a client over the phone "how fit are you?"

"I was in the sas, I run up the andes at weekends, hills! I spit at them, I dragged a 30stone stag 500 miles uphill" they arrive and guess what they are a Heart attack in aigles!!!!!!!!

If they are buying a day, well if they are not fit enough it affects their day not mine, they have bought the day and are not going to get full enjoyment.
On the other hand, with your helper idea, they are effecting your day and you just can't afford that ammount of time loss in a short winter day.

I have let hind stalking and have had some brilliant days with clients who have in return become great pals, however in these cases numbers were not an issue.

 

[steyr]

It's fine, all these guys coming and helping out, will they do it out of season?
How mutch are they willing to pay for the oportunity?
are they qualified to drive an argo or quad?
How do you assess their suitability before they arrive? It's a bit like the old internet dating game when you ask a client over the phone "how fit are you?"

"I was in the sas, I run up the andes at weekends, hills! I spit at them, I dragged a 30stone stag 500 miles uphill" they arrive and guess what they are a Heart attack in aigles!!!!!!!!

If they are buying a day, well if they are not fit enough it affects their day not mine, they have bought the day and are not going to get full enjoyment.
On the other hand, with your helper idea, they are effecting your day and you just can't afford that amount of time loss in a short winter day.

I have let hind stalking and have had some brilliant days with clients who have in return become great pals, however in these cases numbers were not an issue.

a very good reply,i was thinking about my fitness nowadays!! how much is your affordable hind days??,(for a working man!!)and could said man muck in as much as he could and learn as well as just been taken to a hind and told to shoot it!! if you know what i mean!!,ide rather pay for a hind day or week and come along to help and shoot!!!

 

[bambislayer]

With any stalking client, I'm happy to let them pitch in as much as they can or want as long as they are up to the task, the last lad I had out, who I've known for years actually stalks the last 100m or so himself, we discuss whats to be shot before hand and he gets on with it, he then gets on with the gralloch and I walk back for the argo, as well as this he mucks in in the larder and we really have a good laugh and get the job done.

 

[JC275]

Tell us more about your interweb dating experiences Bambislayer! JC

 

[stone]

How did forestry get involved in this?

I think BS is to blame

In Scotland you no longer recieve a restock grant, therefore you just can't accept losses in trees. I was on site last week where the owner was trying to restock douglas Fir, 90% of the plants were munched by deer in 3months? His keeper is now in a bit of bother!!!! I have suggestd either fencing [no grants available] or shooting heavily which would involve their sporting cull of 150roe going up to at least 350 in the first year , what would you do, remember he has just lost a heap of money on feeding deer his trees.

i just added another onlook that would help re-cover the costs of replanting
as the intial work had already been under taken
but it seems that a sporting outlook is not viable and too hard a job for most to do anyway apparently
but hey ho
what do i know

 

[stone]

Never seen a flail mower....Is this one?

just for you Mick

I thought i would just show you a few pics of how this machine worked

Going

Going

gone

this is the effects of just one pass over

ATB

 

[scottybhoy88]

I think BS is to blame

i just added another onlook that would help re-cover the costs of replanting
as the intial work had already been under taken
but it seems that a sporting outlook is not viable and too hard a job for most to do anyway apparently
but hey ho
what do i know

Very little from what I've read on here.

 

[mickthebrick]

Stone. That's a good bit of kit! Just what my dad needs up in Sutherland to open some rides up. Most of the original paths through the forest are overgrown with gorse and they're impassable. One sweep with one of these would do wonders! Now get in it and drive up the M6 immediately.

To be honest he cut a few hundred yards of gorse with a chainsaw/strimmer and you wouldn't believe the grass that came through afterwards.

ATB
Mick

 

[centralbeltstalker]

just for you Mick

I thought i would just show you a few pics of how this machine worked

Going

Going

gone

this is the effects of just one pass over

ATB

thats some machine mate. how much per hour.. ha ha

the previous picture on this thread was a mine clearer but i think it would still clear a ride ha ha

 

[stone]

Very little from what I've read on here.

Scotty
Not sure if that means just this thread or every thread i hav ever contributed too on SD
none the less anyway
but unlike some i am quite diverse in my knowledge and experience and not afraid to share that
as i don't know you and you me either
i offer you the chance to either learn from thy or educate me
choice is yours
but seriously think about it, you may actually learn something from a more modern approach

i'll let you decide on which part of the challenge i hav offered you wish to take
this is not a war of words or even fisticuffs,
but a way to forward in progress, if i come to you for education i will be packing
normally my trusted .243
that will guarantee the results i am after
good health
Stone