Do you NEED signed permission?

[nun_hunter]

A friend of mine has an open cert and is due renewal, he has verbal permission to shoot rabbits on a farm (he only has a .22lr) but the FEO is refusing to process his renewal and threatening him with having to put his rifle in storage without a signed permission letter. He has given the FEO the name address and phone number for the farmer (who is a shotgun cert holder so is known to the FLD and the farm has been cleared for CF use) but the FEO is still demanding a signed letter.

He could get hold of a letter if really needed but due to the attitude of the FEO he would rather stick to his guns (pardon the pun).

So, does it state anywhere in the HO gudance that written SIGNED permission is required?

 

[Edchef]

Strangely I was having this conversation with my FEO on Friday morning He strongly advises obtaining written permission wherever possible
A couple of years ago I obtained (verbal) permission from a farmer for rabbiting on his ground When the FLO visited to pass the ground as safe the farmer had never heard of me!
Fortunately this was merely a case of lack of communication between father and son but a letter would have been useful
Ed
Eventually I will get to the point - No I don't think it does

 

[baguio]

Not law but it would clearly save you a lot of hassle. Write the letter for the land owner and then get him to sign it. 2 seconds out of his day!

 

[nun_hunter]

I know it is easier and for all of mine I do have written permission but in this instance he has a letter but no signature on it yet and no way of getting a signature for a couple of weeks as the farmer is away on holiday (in the UK) but is happy to speak tot he FEO. From looking on the HO guidance it says written permission may be necessary but no mention of a signature. It should have been all sorted a few weeks ago but my friend being a bit naive didn't realise that he needed any written permission as he has an open cert and was only asked by the FEO on his renewal visit.

 

[finnbear270]

In the unhappy event of some form of accident or injury, I would reckon shooting insurance would be a lot smoother in dealing, with a signed permit to shoot.

 

[nun_hunter]

He will have a signed letter in the next two weeks just not before his current cert runs out. What I am trying to find out is does he heed a signature for the sole basis of his renewal.

 

[Taff]

Simple answer is no, if it is his main permission then he only needs to give the owners name, address and species permitted to hunt, some landowners don,t want to put things in writing.
get BASC or who ever he is with to call his FEO and tell him to wind his neck in.

 

[Essex stalker]

BASC have a standard form that you can download and use,just have to get the farmer to sign, makes it all look official and saves lot of agro

 

[Hereford]

I use the 646 form - download from your forces website and filled out in minutes

 

[Cris]

Last time I renewed all I did was fill in the contact details on the form.
Expect I could get the land owners permission in writing for the farms I shoot but not needed. All they will do is ring the contact on the form and check with them.
Might be different for an application.

 

[ELMER FUDD]

Not a legal requirement.

There are many people who are not fortunate enough to have their own permissions and who rely on a booking to comply with the fc requirements.

Even if you give them a signed letter they are still going to check this out to see if you have permission to shoot on that land.

 

[Pedro]

It's really a bit of common sense here. The onus is on the applicant to provide good reason for having his rifle and the best way to do that is to have a letter of permission. If he's left it that late that the landowner is away for a couple of weeks and so he can't get it, then really that's not the FEO's fault!

As for taking the applicant's word for granted that he has permission, I wouldn't hold my breath. If he has an open certificate and has somewhere else to shoot, then get a letter there possibly? Despite it being an open cert, you still need to show good reason to possess, which means proof of permission to shoot somewhere.

 

[Ray7756]

Why bu**er about if your FEO says he wants a signed permission, just give it to him, you can them point out this is not a requirement in law, but you are happy to go along with it, or go hire yourself a lawyer and spend a fortune defending your "principles" I have a great relationship with my FEO because " he asks or suggests" and I provide, mind you he is very reasonable as he gave me open ticket for paid stalking on first application, after being out of shooting for years
basicaly play the game and dont upset the system if you want a FAC

 

[Sinistral]

A friend of mine has an open cert and is due renewal, he has verbal permission to shoot rabbits on a farm (he only has a .22lr) but the FEO is refusing to process his renewal and threatening him with having to put his rifle in storage without a signed permission letter. He has given the FEO the name address and phone number for the farmer (who is a shotgun cert holder so is known to the FLD and the farm has been cleared for CF use) but the FEO is still demanding a signed letter.

He could get hold of a letter if really needed but due to the attitude of the FEO he would rather stick to his guns (pardon the pun).

So, does it state anywhere in the HO gudance that written SIGNED permission is required?

Signed permission is the standard of proof on a Renewal. In law this is the same as the initial Application.

The 1968 Act states that the burden of proof of Good Reason rests with the applicant. Why should any FEO have to mess about repeatedly trying to contact a named individual to confirm things because the applicant is too idle to get written permission? Why not try and smooth the path here if possible, rather than be difficult?

Advise your friend to get it done. In the event of any damage, or harm to anyone that will be the first get-out clause for the underwriters on his shooting insurance. You can bet that any landowner will hesitate to confirm a verbal agreement if faced with a liability claim.

 

[Cris]

Signed permission is the standard of proof on a Renewal. In law this is the same as the initial Application.

The 1968 Act states that the burden of proof of Good Reason rests with the applicant. Why should any FEO have to mess about repeatedly trying to contact a named individual to confirm things because the applicant is too idle to get written permission? Why not try and smooth the path here if possible, rather than be difficult?

Advise your friend to get it done. In the event of any damage, or harm to anyone that will be the first get-out clause for the underwriters on his shooting insurance. You can bet that any landowner will hesitate to confirm a verbal agreement if faced with a liability claim.

Possibly because anyone can write a letter and get his mate to sign it. The FEO will contact the named individual on the renewal form for verbal confirmation of who they are and who you are along with his permission for you to shoot over their land. They may even visite the landowner.
Still a signed letter may make you feel better and could never harm.

 

[B&W FOX]

BASC have a standard form that you can download and use,just have to get the farmer to sign, makes it all look official and saves lot of agro

In the unhappy event of some form of accident or injury, I would reckon shooting insurance would be a lot smoother in dealing, with a signed permit to shoot.

My landowners stipulated that I had insurance through BASC and they also requested the form for shooting permissions be down loaded from the BASC website and we both sign it so we know where we all stand. Only way to go for both parties.
FEO can then check if he wants to.

 

[Taff]

Amazed that people say they are on good terms with there FEO , I only ever heard from mine on renewals,
Sinistral , Hants provide a basic form stating calibre, species, address of property, the owner signs the bottom, but they still call the owner.

 

[Kjf]

Tis all I've ever done, I do put the farm address on the form as well though,

just bell your your farmer and tell him what's going on , just in case they call him,

communication is key, I also have written permission with farmers signatures on, makes it all easier( I think you only need 1 written perm to get your FAC though)

atb

flynny

 

[stubear]

Personally I would always get signed permission. You may not HAVE to do it and providing addresses may be enough, but having everything on paper is just easier all round.

I heard a story not long ago about a chap who had verbal permission from a farmer to shoot rabbits on his land. So off the guy goes with his rifle and some how during the course of an evenings shooting a round ends up going through someones kitchen window whether by ricochet or negligence.

The police were called (natch) and as questions were being asked the guy was saying that he had permission from the farmer to shoot. The farmer, possibly concerned about some legal grief coming his way, said he'd never seen the guy before - So as a result the guy had poaching and armed trespass charges to worry about in addition to getting his ticket pulled.

If you have your ticket, some ID and permission in writing on your person while you're out in the event that something happens, even if that something is just a passer by calling the police who have some questions for you, you can prove who you are, that you have permission to be there and you legally own the guns you're out with.

No ticket, no permission letter, no ID - You've got some hassle coming your way even if it all ultimately works out in your favour.

 

[bewsher500]

Amazed that people say they are on good terms with there FEO , I only ever heard from mine on renewals,
Sinistral , Hants provide a basic form stating calibre, species, address of property, the owner signs the bottom, but they still call the owner.

just pass him the owner's number.