Log burner liner and fitting - costs?

[Wingy]

Problems with these types of jobs and quotes are unforeseen problems. A quote given on a quick look may have factored in for possible unforeseen difficulties or a quote based on an in depth survey of the requirements would have taken more time and that's all work and time before the contractor makes any money. You will have paid for this in the total price of the job.
Then also to consider is what time the guys actually started work not when they arrived at your house.
They may have had to attend an office, pick up the job, collect a work vehicle, load it, get to your place, do the job, go back, unload the vehicle, sort paperwork, register your certificate. That's all time they are being paid for but not all at your house but all in relation to your job and your initial quote.
Sorry you felt ripped off or cheated but at the end of the day it was price agreed for a job. Job done price paid. Had it taken 2 days because of any issues I would not have expected the price to go up.
Wingy

 

[Alantoo]

Three elements - 2 men, certification, one working day. Not half a day - thats what I agreed to.
Less than one working day - expected price adjustment - not wildly unreasonable one would have thought ?

Yes, wildly unreasonable I think.

Was it an estimate or a quote, written or spoken? Were hourly rates mentioned?

Whichever...I think you may have misunderstood the quotation terms and have it all back to front.

In my experience of writing and receiving estimates/quotations and signing contracts...if any length of time for the job is given to the customer it is from the point of view of a maximum time that there will be any disruption to the site.

Not a guarantee that you will have men on site for the duration of the period.

The price is for the job, and any time constraints are always the other way around...there is a penalty clause if they take any longer and delay the completion of the project.

I have sometimes managed to avoid a penalty clause by demanding a corresponding performance clause that the price will be increased at the same rate for every day I complete ahead of time...The worst penalty clause I had to sign was on a £200K project with a 10K per day penalty clause. Although mine was just a small part of the over-all scheme the main contractor passed the entire penalty clause to all the subcontractors however much they would prevent the operation of the building for the clients. My work was in the grounds and would not really have made much difference....

Perhaps you could re-read your quotation with that in mind. Maybe post it so we can draw our own conclusions and understand your peeve.

As far as your low price for two men go I agree with others above, £360 is a reasonable daily rate for a tradesman...For a tradesman and labourer I would expect more.

If your understanding is that the quotation included a promise of a days work...does it actually state that this is work on site? Or is it your assumption that any time mentioned refers only to the time on site? Others have pointed out the loading and unloading, admin and daily maintenance of equipment plus the journey time to and from the site, which to the operatives is all part of your job.

Alan

 

[Lord V]

Yes, wildly unreasonable I think.

Was it an estimate or a quote, written or spoken? Were hourly rates mentioned?

Whichever...I think you may have misunderstood the quotation terms and have it all back to front.

In my experience of writing and receiving estimates/quotations and signing contracts...if any length of time for the job is given to the customer it is from the point of view of a maximum time that there will be any disruption to the site.

Not a guarantee that you will have men on site for the duration of the period.

The price is for the job, and any time constraints are always the other way around...there is a penalty clause if they take any longer and delay the completion of the project.

I have sometimes managed to avoid a penalty clause by demanding a corresponding performance clause that the price will be increased at the same rate for every day I complete ahead of time...The worst penalty clause I had to sign was on a £200K project with a 10K per day penalty clause. Although mine was just a small part of the over-all scheme the main contractor passed the entire penalty clause to all the subcontractors however much they would prevent the operation of the building for the clients. My work was in the grounds and would not really have made much difference....

Perhaps you could re-read your quotation with that in mind. Maybe post it so we can draw our own conclusions and understand your peeve.

As far as your low price for two men go I agree with others above, £360 is a reasonable daily rate for a tradesman...For a tradesman and labourer I would expect more.

If your understanding is that the quotation included a promise of a days work...does it actually state that this is work on site? Or is it your assumption that any time mentioned refers only to the time on site? Others have pointed out the loading and unloading, admin and daily maintenance of equipment plus the journey time to and from the site, which to the operatives is all part of your job.

Alan

Can't agree more.

 

[User00035]

I'm a sole trader and I don't price labour on a half day basis. If you've gone to four hours its a full day because by the time you're packed up and gone there is no possibility of starting another job and recouping your other four hours elsewhere. Effectively that job has cost you the whole day and you have to charge for it or you won't be in business long.

 

[McKenzie]

I'm a sole trader and I don't price labour on a half day basis. If you've gone to four hours its a full day because by the time you're packed up and gone there is no possibility of starting another job and recouping your other four hours elsewhere. Effectively that job has cost you the whole day and you have to charge for it or you won't be in business long.

+ 1 for this.

I do have some clients I charge fractions of a day to but I arrange a trip to include 2 or 3 clients all in the same street so sometimes I don't even have to move the vehicle.

 

[nun_hunter]

The wife's car needed a new alternator and I was quoted £170 to supply and fit it and was told it'll take a couple of hours. It ended up taking over 8 hours due to unforseen circumstances and required removal and regas of the ACP system. I still paid £170 and if it had taken 30 minutes I'd still happily pay £170. Some jobs take longer than expected and you make a loss, others are quicker and you make a gain but it all evens out in the end.

 

[bowji john]

My wife's SLK needed some widget replacing in the engine that was causing the engine to cut out

Was told it would take an hour and the widget cost £85 plus £45 for labor

Took the mechanic several hours as said widget was corroded into block

Got a bill for £500 plus VAT

The widget probably cost £20 or so to the mechanic

I no longer buy fancy cars or pay for anything that I can't bodge myself

 

[kes]

The men arrived at 1.30 as stated and came from another job which they had completed - so no office time - no any other time, just travelling time.

 

[Kjf]

Kes mate,

come on old bean , you agreed to the cost,

doesnt matter if if it took 2 hrs or 2 days, you were obviously happy with the price in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't have agreed for them to to the job

the price is the price that YOU agreed too,
A man has to earn a crust doesn't he

hope you are well mate

kjf

 

[reiver]

The men arrived at 1.30 as stated and came from another job which they had completed - so no office time - no any other time, just travelling time.

Does the fire work as it should? if so job done and at a fair price .
you pay for the knowledge as much as the time in the building industry.
I have over 30+ years as a builder and I charge for my knowledge/skill and technique in doing jobs £360 is cheap for 2 men and a van + insurance, tools etc
if you did it your self and got building control to do the certificate for the stove they would charge you at least £80+ vat and that is the price from 3 years ago .
Them that can do! them that cannot moan about them that can .

 

[Pete6.5]

Next time do it your self and get a building control notice ( I think that is what they call it) but the building inspector will charge to inspect but if you just do it your self your house insurance may be void if something happens

 

[limulus]

Did you tip them?
i was with a professional Saturday and had agreed a price of £75 for 4 hrs but shot a beast after 15 mins so just paid him £4.68. I'm sure he was happy...I was.

 

[kes]

Thanks for all your comments - time to go back to your normal enjoyable pursuits.

 

[DAVIDAIKEN]

For 4 hours 15 minutes grass cutting I would charge £85.00 plus petrol/oil if using a petrol lawnmower/strimmer. That's for one person just cutting grass!

 

[Wingy]

For 4 hours 15 minutes grass cutting I would charge £85.00 plus petrol/oil if using a petrol lawnmower/strimmer. That's for one person just cutting grass!

WOW I'm doing myself short. I charge £10 / hour for garden maintenance including grass cutting, petrol, oil, travel etc. Oh and that's per hour on site. But that's the pre arranged contract with regular clients.
Wingy

 

[User00035]

You can't run any sort of business on £10/hr. You'll be lucky if you're clearing the minimum wage.

 

[DAVIDAIKEN]

With vehicle cost (tyres, breaks, fuel etc) liability insurance, machinery maintenance/replacement costs, invoice stationary, advertising, my time and fuel visiting and processing quotes, and all the hidden (accountant fees!!) costs of running a business. Maybe only doing a 4 hour day due to some customers only allowing me on the job 10:00 -14:00 and not being able to fit another job in on that day! To right I charge £20 per hour, this year I came in at just over the minimum wage! I agree with Finch, you can't run a business on £10 per hour!

 

[highseat6.5]

The good news is you bought a cracking wood burner that will long outlast the bad taste the fitting left ! ..

ps , mine cost that to fit eight years ago £360 for two men isn't a rip off ..