7mm rem mag

[User00033]

I wish more blokes would read Chuck's article and use tools like this calculator below before starting to ask lots of daft questions about magnums in lightweight rifle configurations. That's not a criticism of the OP's original question but more a general comment about the craze these days towards ultralite bolt action cannons.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

 

[alberta boy]

I've always liked the 7mmRM . It's a really good all round cartridge that for some reason got a lot of bad press over the last ten years or so . Mostly from people who never used one . My particular favorite complaint was about the fact that it had a belt , as if that had any bearing on it's performance . Anyways , in a rifle of standard weight , about 8.5 pounds , I'm not a fan of light weight rifles and large capacity cases , it's a relatively mild cartridge to shoot . It shoots very flat , retains energy well and there is a huge variety of great bullets to choose from . I've used one to take a few Moose and Deer with over the years and it worked flawlessly . I'd happily use one for everything out here . That being said , I'm in the middle of building a 280AI on a pre-war DWM Mauser 98 ............ I'm a hypocrite lol .
The No1 is a very nice rifle . Like a lot of two piece stocked rifles , you might run into some bedding issues . I've had a few and only run into the problem once on a 375 H&H . It was a very quick and simple fix and the rifle has been chugging along now for over 20 years . I have a thing for single shots of any flavour , the Rugers are a good one .

AB

 

[Southern]

I have two hunting pals who, for at least 20 years, used nothing but their 7mm RM for everything. One uses a Ruger 77 with 24 inch barrel, and the other uses a Ruger No. 1B with 26-inch barrel. The Ruger M77 has been all over the world and shot all sorts of game from giant ones, deer, elk, moose, bears, boar - all dead with one shot of 175-gr bullets. The 1B has mostly been a stand rifle, over grain and bean fields, using 160-gr Sierra GK. That owner has now gone to a Kimber 7mm-08 as his stalking rifle for wooded hills.

I shoot 7x57, 7mm-08, 7x64 and .280 Rem, but no 7mm magnums. I love the 7s, and there are some great bullets for them, but as said, other than some niche rifle for specialized hunting, there is nothing the 7mm RM will do that a .30-06 with the same barrel, scope and bullet style will not do, as far as anyone can ethically take game.

But it is a very versatile cartridge, and comes ( came ) in some beautiful rifles: Ruger M77, Ruger No.1S and 1B, Winchester Super Grade, Sako Finnbear, Steyr Model S, Browning 1885 and B78, Winchester 1885 Sporter.

Go for one of those with a 24-inch barrel ( or 26 or 28 for single shot ), and enjoy forever.

 

[Essexsussex]

I have two hunting pals who, for at least 20 years, used nothing but their 7mm RM for everything. One uses a Ruger 77 with 24 inch barrel, and the other uses a Ruger No. 1B with 26-inch barrel. The Ruger M77 has been all over the world and shot all sorts of game from giant ones, deer, elk, moose, bears, boar - all dead with one shot of 175-gr bullets. The 1B has mostly been a stand rifle, over grain and bean fields, using 160-gr Sierra GK. That owner has now gone to a Kimber 7mm-08 as his stalking rifle for wooded hills.

I shoot 7x57, 7mm-08, 7x64 and .280 Rem, but no 7mm magnums. I love the 7s, and there are some great bullets for them, but as said, other than some niche rifle for specialized hunting, there is nothing the 7mm RM will do that a .30-06 with the same barrel, scope and bullet style will not do, as far as anyone can ethically take game.

But it is a very versatile cartridge, and comes ( came ) in some beautiful rifles: Ruger M77, Winchester Super Grade, Sako Finnbear, Steyr Model S, Browning 1885.
Go for one of those with a 24-inch barrel ( or 26 or 28 for single shot ), and enjoy forever.

amd husqvarna 1900 of course...

 

[Essexsussex]

Thinking of a 7mm rem mag Ruger no1 any for's and against calibre or rifle.
Cheers Steve.

there's a Ruger no.1 in 7mm rem mag in the Southams auction.

 

[Heym SR20]

Ah. They say that God created the .270 Winchester. Well I think He then sat back and gave the matter another thirty years of thought as to how he could get it really, really perfect and then created the .280 Remington. I loved mine, especially as the cartridge, and myself, both saw light of day in the self same year...1957! And, yes, Jon, I regret selling mine too.

Nope, he got it right first time with the 7x57 and 7x64 - the Americans tried to improve it by creating the 270, failed and then tried the 280 and 7mm Rem Mag.

7x57 - brilliant up to 200 yards, 7x64 adds another 100 or so, and more thump with bigger bullets on bigger stuff.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

99% of stalkers will not see the benefit of a marginal increase in ballistic coefficient of a 7mm vs a .30 or .277

The 7mm RM is to the 280 what the 300wm is to the 30-06
Except I would argue the advantage of the 300s is considerably more weight options and appears to be more efficient with comparable velocities at heavier weights using similar powder charge

The 7mm RM runs out of steam in the 165-175gr range
2850-2900 fps with a 175gr is the norm for factory

barely 50-75fps than the 7x64

by contrast the 300Win Mag produces 3050-3150 with a 180gr and has the capability of pushing 220gr

 

[Sinistral]

99% of stalkers will not see the benefit of a marginal increase in ballistic coefficient of a 7mm vs a .30 or .277

The 7mm RM is to the 280 what the 300wm is to the 30-06
Except I would argue the advantage of the 300s is considerably more weight options and appears to be more efficient with comparable velocities at heavier weights using similar powder charge

The 7mm RM runs out of steam in the 165-175gr range
2850-2900 fps with a 175gr is the norm for factory

barely 50-75fps than the 7x64

by contrast the 300Win Mag produces 3050-3150 with a 180gr and has the capability of pushing 220gr

It's been a while since we had a calibre topic.
I’d rephrase this to say that 99% of stalkers don’t need to be clouted by a .300WM. The bigger case & bigger charge does carry a penalty. It’s OTT for any deer in the UK, and is matched by the 7mm RM at 300M if you shoot that far.

The 7x64 is nowhere near the big 7 BTW.
Look at the figures ......

Norma Plastic Point 170 gr - Norma

Norma Plastic Point 170 gr - Norma

Norma Plastic Point 180 gr - Norma

 

[paul o']

I had .243 , it was the best shooting rifle i'v ever owned and one of them rifles in life I wished I never let go ? with deep blueing and well made nice recoil pad made it a delight to shoot .

 

[jon2]

It's been a while since we had a calibre topic.
I’d rephrase this to say that 99% of stalkers don’t need to be clouted by a .300WM. The bigger case & bigger charge does carry a penalty. It’s OTT for any deer in the UK, and is matched by the 7mm RM at 300M if you shoot that far.

The 7x64 is nowhere near the big 7 BTW.
Look at the figures ......

Norma Plastic Point 170 gr - Norma

Norma Plastic Point 170 gr - Norma

Norma Plastic Point 180 gr - Norma

I agree with that. The .300 win mag is a "proper magnum" unlike the 7RM and is too much gun for my liking in sporter config. Also just not required in the UK as like you say the 7mm is more than enough gun for long range and is pleasant to shoot.

 

[NigelM]

99% of stalkers will not see the benefit of a marginal increase in ballistic coefficient of a 7mm vs a .30 or .277

The 7mm RM is to the 280 what the 300wm is to the 30-06
Except I would argue the advantage of the 300s is considerably more weight options and appears to be more efficient with comparable velocities at heavier weights using similar powder charge

The 7mm RM runs out of steam in the 165-175gr range
2850-2900 fps with a 175gr is the norm for factory

barely 50-75fps than the 7x64

by contrast the 300Win Mag produces 3050-3150 with a 180gr and has the capability of pushing 220gr

I have been resting replying to this, but can't do so any longer...Sorry Ed.

I have had two 7 RM's. They kick pretty hard and I would argue that it's too much gun for UK stalking. They are very fussy when it comes to what you feed them and very sensitive to seating depth especially.

The 300 WM kicks even harder and is too much for any UK deer species at sensible ranges. If you are planning Kudu in Africa then there is a good argument for it. However, the 300 WM is a bit like the 30-06 or 308 in that it is not very fussy about what you feed it and is inherently a more accurate chambering, much easier to load for.

Personally, for UK species a 280 is great, a 280 AI all you will ever need. Easy to load for, bucks the wind very well with the high BC 7mm bullets and has much less felt recoil than the 7RM. Inherently more accurate.

The big plus on the 7mm is not in trajectory which you can dial in, but in wind drift. At 300 meters, the edge of a shot on the hill, a 300 WM running a 180 grain SST at 3050 runs 7.1" of drift in 10 mph wind. A 280AI running a 145 LRX (not a very slippery bullet) at 3150 fps runs 6.3" of drift. Both have more than enough energy to drop a big Red Stag. I have dropped big Moose with the 280Ai as well.

I would rather suffer 3100 ftLb of energy than 3700 ftLb. 20% less for the same end result. Get into bullets like the 168 ABLR in the 280AI and it starts to embarrass big 30 cal's at 300 meters plus in terms of energy delivered. Unless you are after Kudu, I can't see why you would do it. But I am happy to be educated.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

The big plus on the 7mm is not in trajectory which you can dial in, but in wind drift. At 300 meters, the edge of a shot on the hill, a 300 WM running a 180 grain SST at 3050 runs 7.1" of drift in 10 mph wind.
A 280AI running a 145 LRX (not a very slippery bullet) at 3150 fps runs 6.3" of drift. Both have more than enough energy to drop a big Red Stag. I have dropped big Moose with the 280Ai as well.

Its that 0.8" at 300m that 99% of recreational (and even professional) shooters will never see the benefit in (or be able to see in a target/range scenario.
(300m, one shooter, two rifles, two bullets, same target, one big group overlapping, likely in the 3-4"+ size ...no benefit)

I am not disagreeing
I think the 280 and the 7x64 are better choices than the 7mm RM. But everyone should own a 300wm

Going for a 300 Norma Mag next!

 

[NigelM]

I think we're on the same page Ed. My point wasn't about that extra 0.8" making the 280Ai "better" it was more about it having plenty of energy for anything in the Uk and there was little point in suffering the extra recoil the 300 has.

Having said that, like your hankering for a 300 Norma I have a 7mm Practical itch to scratch at some point!

 

[stalkerboydy]

The 300 WM kicks even harder and is too much for any UK deer species at sensible ranges. But I am happy to be educated.[/QUOTE]

What a total crock of Pooooooop.
I shot loads of Muntjac and CWD with the .300 Win-Mag Ed now has from 30yrd to 200yrd and it done/does less damage than a .243.
I also shot 210 fallow Does one season ( .25 was out of action ) without a Moderator never lost a carcass to meat damage and it also never felt any different to shooting a .308 without a moderator Noiser I'll grant you that one

 

[User00033]

What a total crock of Pooooooop. I shot loads of Muntjac and CWD with the .300 Win-Mag Ed now has from 30yrd to 200yrd and it done/does less damage than a .243. I also shot 210 fallow Does one season ( .25 was out of action ) without a Moderator never lost a carcass to meat damage and it also never felt any different to shooting a .308 without a moderator Noiser I'll grant you that one

From the Chuck Hawks recoil table, both 180gr pills:

Calibre / Recoil Energy (ft lbs)
.308 / 17.5
.300WM / 25.9 (+33%)

My grandmother used to say "where there's no sense, there's no feeling".

 

[stalkerboydy]

From the Chuck Hawks recoil table, both 180gr pills:

Calibre / Recoil Energy (ft lbs)
.308 / 17.5
.300WM / 25.9 (+33%)

My grandmother used to say "where there's no sense, there's no feeling".

And what's with the personal Insult ????
Oh just a thought perhaps ( myself included ) if the shooter don't hold a Rifle correctly of fits properly a un moderatored .22-250 will kick.

 

[Cumbrian 1]

Perceived recoil is different for everyone, in addition to how we personally perceive the recoil many other factors come into play - weight, stock shape/design, shooting position etc.

I use to have a Ruger no1 in .300 win mag and believe me you knew when it went off , lovely action, great balance but light I would think twice before ordering one in 7mm rem mag, as others have stated it is ideal for rimmed rounds or go with belted it doesn't matter but I would avoid the bigger magnums.

 

[Pine Marten]

Perceived recoil is different for everyone, in addition to how we personally perceive the recoil many other factors come into play - weight, stock shape/design, shooting position etc.

The most unpleasant rifle I ever used was a .303 Lee Enfield from the prone position. Every shot felt like a hammer blow to the clavicle. I remember thinking that whoever designed the stock didn't know what shape humans were. The second most unpleasant was a really light Tikka T3 in .308 with a plastic stock. Again, it was down to stock design/weight. Neither of those are viewed as heavy recoiling rounds. I shot Scrumbag's FN 9.3x62 from a bench. You certainly knew you were firing it, but it wasn't anything like as unpleasant as the other two I just mentioned. Personally I find that the Bavarian stock suits me really well. That's just the shape I am I suppose...

 

[SDC7x57]

Had a 7mm rem Mag for quite a few years on a Blaser. It had a Magna Ported barrel and was a great rifle to shoot in recoil terms (and VERY accurate). Just don't forget yer lug plugs with the Magna-Port! Although I often say to folks that they should use a 30-06 for plains game (because of ammo availability overseas), the 7mm Mag was (my opinion...) the superior round for long shots. Loved it!

 

[enfieldspares]

The most unpleasant rifle I ever used was a .303 Lee Enfield from the prone position. Every shot felt like a hammer blow to the clavicle.

How tall were you Pine Marten when you did this? My suspicion is that the rifle probably had a "S" (short) butt fitted not a normal or "L" (long) butt. Even worse if you were unlucky to have a "B" ("bantam") butt which is/was a possibility on an SMLE. With the correct length butt the SMLE or the No4 is a pussycat.

As you say stock fit is all important. I have shot a .470 Nitro Express with less felt recoil that a 2 3/4" loaded 20 Bore all down to stock fit.