Interesting - some of the proposed Community buy-outs under the Scottish Land Reform agenda are looking at communities taking control of stalking to produced sustainable community benefits.
Making stalking more accessible
- Thread starter Dukesarcher
- Start date
Interesting - some of the proposed Community buy-outs under the Scottish Land Reform agenda are looking at communities taking control of stalking to produced sustainable community benefits.
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
I have no evidence to support what you are thinking of the future state of Scotland or UK. Your argument holds no water with me, unless you can provide some evidence.
I do not see the number of hunters is proportional to the population, nor the number of people living in the megalopolis city of London, directly proportional to the number of people willing to hunt, or carryout other outdoor activities in the Scottish highlands. Most people I know from London think Glasgow is inhabited with relatives of Rab. C. Nesbitt.
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
I love the post, thank you for making one of my points for me again.
As the actor says in the film " there are always idiots in the hunting "
by that, I mean , anyone who takes a 'comedy ' sketch like that seriously is clearly
Not that bright.
Kinest regards, Olaf
I thought you'd like that. Its extremely hard film to find. My German friend managed to find a DVD copy in Munich for me and he was kind enough to translate it, although I really didn't need any translation.
Interestingly Victoria is roughly the same size as UK, it's hard to find figures on how many 'licenced hunters' we have? But of the 153,404 FAC holders have some 315,000 rifles?
How many are deer stalkers I don't know? 24,000 people have completed a DSC1 so not miles away from Victoria's 30,000 licensed hunters. (Before you start I know there are plenty of very good capable stalkers without a DSC1).
does anybody know how many fatal hunting accidents have happen here in last ten years?
Victoria 237, 629 km2 population 6,039,100 and 30,000 hunters
UK 245,610 km2 population 66,573,504 and 153,404 rifle owners (obvs some will be target/vermin/collectors)
So looking at these figures 0.47% population are hunting in Victoria as opposed to 0.23% in UK
I have no idea what any of this means in terms of whether stalking in Aus is more accessible than here in UK and if that reflects on safety, I have to say I haven't heard of a fatal accident in the UK, but then I don't read the papers.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
But the biggest problem with that is most community buy outs will not be big enough to support a FT stalker or even to guarantee deer numbers without relying on the neighbouring grounds.
The even bigger problem is most of these 'community' groups are full of complete numpties, often not really locals usually white settlers who generally have absolutely no common sense or idea. so the chance of them ever organising a truly sustainable stalking scheme or anything else sustainable for that matter is slim.
Have we not been very extensively down this road before McHugh. Can't remember the thread title but went round and round in circles for 30odd pages
Comparing an FC wood to woodland in OZ, NZ or USA is just a nonsense, I don't think u really appreciate how many folk u see using the countryside in the UK.
The very fact that in NZ hunting mags and best practice tells u to always carry a deer head out upside down should tell u something, thankfully very few UK hunters tend to shoot at moving/rustling bushes
I'm getting better
But as you know most of my stalking is open farmland so I have more time and a clearer view than you woodland stalkers!!Which is where the thermal comes in, the compulsory use of which I guess would help safety with more people on the ground as long as people understood their limitations...
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
Now we are starting to get somewhere. The number of licenced deer hunters is 35,000 and you can double the number of hunters from southern European ancestry that duck hunt. So licenced hunters hunting on public land is probably closer to 60,000.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/367048/Deer-Harvest-Report-2016-FOR-WEB.pdf
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/368488/Hunters-bag-survey-report-2017.docx.pdf
Salmo Salar
Well-Known Member
Surprised there has been no comments on my suggestion that for FC land you can only hold 1 lease and only be in 1 syndicate...... That for sure would allow more people access if they have the required certs.
Fairly straight forward to administer.
Fairly straight forward to administer.
I find it strange that so many people think they deserve to be granted access to someone else's private land so they can carry out their hobby! Hunting/stalking is not a right, it is a luxury and a privilege, which must be earned, or paid for. If you want to shoot over someone's private land you need to make yourself useful to them in some way or else why would they want you there ?
sikamalc
Administrator
The whole FC business has always been a bit of a postcode lottery in my opinion. Scotland with its less dense populations and more accessible stalking areas will no doubt always have more stalking leases to offer, and not only with the FC. There are other forestry businesses that also lease out stalking rights.
However in England, and in particularly southern England you have a large population of people and a great many using FC land. The problems of conflict with public is going to be much higher. Therefore there is a more distinct possibility that the insurance companies used by the FC will not want people with rifles wandering around woodland used by the public.
Having dealt with the FC over a particular area and been given the opportunity to stalk the deer on there, I, along with 3 colleagues withdrew our offer at the meeting. The FC obviously at the time wanted maximum money for hardly and return on our behalf, 10 Fallow bucks and 10 Roe bucks between 1st April and the end of October was a complete joke. The doe numbers were and still are the issue, and would have been far easier with less public access in the winter. Its best to just walk away from situations that you know are not going to work and where you are having your pants pulled down.
It is still the same in other areas in the south and south east, cant see anything changing either with them.
However in England, and in particularly southern England you have a large population of people and a great many using FC land. The problems of conflict with public is going to be much higher. Therefore there is a more distinct possibility that the insurance companies used by the FC will not want people with rifles wandering around woodland used by the public.
Having dealt with the FC over a particular area and been given the opportunity to stalk the deer on there, I, along with 3 colleagues withdrew our offer at the meeting. The FC obviously at the time wanted maximum money for hardly and return on our behalf, 10 Fallow bucks and 10 Roe bucks between 1st April and the end of October was a complete joke. The doe numbers were and still are the issue, and would have been far easier with less public access in the winter. Its best to just walk away from situations that you know are not going to work and where you are having your pants pulled down.
It is still the same in other areas in the south and south east, cant see anything changing either with them.
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
Forty thousand views and about 300 replies why its not possible.
Yet here we are again, fortunately some with a more open mind to discuss it.
Should the UK have public land for stalking?
Yet here we are again, fortunately some with a more open mind to discuss it.
Should the UK have public land for stalking?
TOMMO.B
Well-Known Member
Aye and yet again it boils down to.... There is not much public land in the UK. Most of the land folk shoot on has been hard earned and taken a long time to get.
As for every one getting on, IE dog walkers and mountain bikers ect. Thats a pipe dream. I live and work in a National Park and to even think of any sort of harmony is crazy.
Every one thinks they have the right to do what ever they want. We also have the right to roam Scotland act.
Yeah every body having a place to stalk would be utopia. But its never going to happen.
Why not open all the rivers too and let all try fishing. Bit safer after all.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I would imagine most folk will only be in the 1 stalking syndicate or very ocasionally 2 if they have different deer species on them.
1 problem u mght find is getting folk to volunteer to take on the paperwork it takes to get a FC lease, I kow I couldn't handle all the H&S bs u have to do.
U will find some folk do collect them to some extent, but I think in recent year even the FC has been stopping this. Ur now restricted to winning 1 lease per year, but I think i's more to do with having 1 person having a few leases and then giving up suddenly.
stalking (and game shooting) is more accessable than it's ever been. More syndicates, more guides
Ranger is the arran scheme sustainable? Does the money coming in support all the staff it takes to run it? And do they meet the cull with the scheme?
Ur definitely right more schemes like that would help but I wasn't sure if Basc subsidise the scheme?
Do they still have the scheme down at theftford?
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
Everyone does not have a right to do whatever they want. That is anarchy. However the minimum of rules, generally what people can understand, and reasonably follow while exercising some judgement. Now if the view is nobody can be trusted to do anything, well then that's not the sort of society I want to live in. My freedom should not be hindered by the action of a few, as the few exist in all walks of life.
Bollards, once used to secure berthed ships can now be found at various places around the city and have taken on a new role - they are monuments to multi-culturalism.
Last edited:
Ranger22
Well-Known Member
It’s not a game, we have culls to achieve and trees to protect. It takes us all our time to do so, so somebody coming along for a day or two by themselves on unfamiliar ground is not going to achieve anything. More schemes like Arran might be the way to go. It’s affordable for everyone. The one question needing asked is, is there a big enough demand for more schemes? There is only a good handful of folk on here wanting things opened up.
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
There are a few pros and cons to professionals and amateurs with respect to deer culling in public and private land.
The evidence in my neck of the woods is some pros are very good hunting at night with gear the average stalking is prohibited from accessing and in the right circumstances can kill many more deer than the average stalker can during the day. The counter argument is 35,000 stalkers and houndsmen took 100,000 deer during the day. Numbers pros could never achieve nor over such a vast area.
Something like commandos versus infantry.
The evidence in my neck of the woods is some pros are very good hunting at night with gear the average stalking is prohibited from accessing and in the right circumstances can kill many more deer than the average stalker can during the day. The counter argument is 35,000 stalkers and houndsmen took 100,000 deer during the day. Numbers pros could never achieve nor over such a vast area.
Something like commandos versus infantry.
