BBC 4 TONIGHT AT 2100 Hr Hunting Controversy

[Bos en Dal Safaris]

The word 'Canned Hunting' conjures up allsorts of misconceptions, mainly the thought that is just a bit of target practice on semi wild animals.
As does the word 'Fenced' what people don't realise is that the areas fenced are nearly, or can be, as big and sometimes bigger, than some counties in UK and the 'semi wild' animals that have been released have as much free range as any other wild animal elsewhere.
Does anybody ever use the term 'canned' when talking about pheasant shooting ? think about it !

+1

 

[deerwarden]

I wasn't happy with how they casually took a fag break while waiting for the Elephant to die.....That was sickening.
And then the yeeha attitude towards shooting the Croc in a paddling pool,that was bad too.
Then the aftermath of the poachers.....
Looks like using the "canned" terminology is the least of Africa's worries,they need to tidy up there act over there,the world is watching.

I have hunted in S.A. 6 times 4 of those with Guy Swartz of Wild Horizons, a member of this forum. All hunting was within fenced areas over a vast area, many of the animals were able to go under or over the fences at will. They came and went at their own vocation. I had no issues at all hunting in S.A. and had to work hard to get the six trophies that hang on my wall. However the shooting of the elephant was distasteful to say the least, the animal went down after three shots, and what looked to be a great hunting experience was marred by the indifference of P.H. and hunter to finish the animal off. The poor creature was making moaning noises, and pathetic little squeaks, and the sound of blood gurgling in its trunk, while they just looked on. Why wasn't the animal given the respect and dignity it deserved, and dispatched with yet another bullet while it laid on the ground, rather than waiting for it to die in what was an undignified way for all concerned, including the elephant. The elephant was not a trophy animal, but I believe a crop raider, one of several that are taken each year. So the two macho men could have put a bullet into its brain as there was no trophy to be worried about. I have again watched this video and found it upsetting, the only good deed they done that day was to provide food for the local people to eat. deerwarden

 

[Milligan]

I wasn't happy with how they casually took a fag break while waiting for the Elephant to die.....That was sickening.
And then the yeeha attitude towards shooting the Croc in a paddling pool,that was bad too.
Then the aftermath of the poachers.....
Looks like using the "canned" terminology is the least of Africa's worries,they need to tidy up there act over there,the world is watching.

I am surprised croc bloke was below elephant bloke in your standing. Croc bloke struck me a as a complete dick who shot a fish in a barrel and then treated said fish with contempt while asking the price of the other fish.
Elephant bloke showed some semblance of decency. Perhaps many don't realise what a big animal an elephant is and how long it takes to die after 4 large cal shots.
As for your last point, that's exactly it, the world is not watching. at all. the world is concerned with how much x Jenner or y Kardashian is earning/doing or what J Corbyn said, or D Trumps hair.
The world gives not a **** about Rhino's or conservation. Did you watch that Falcon Heavy launch...

 

[norma 308]

gerrit if you'd have watched the doc you would of been very unhappy as was I .
hopefully good outfitters can stop this sort of situation from occurring and I may re add it to mybucket list .good luck
cheers Norma

 

[Bos en Dal Safaris]

Norma

I am sure i would have been ****ed as well!!! It is every hunters responsibility to put the animal out of its missery as soon as posible.. hense why i asked if they ever mentioned who the outfitter was. We dont need ph's and outfitters like that in our industry. I will make a point of whatching it. Please dont take hunting in sa of your list as this is one or two individuals that acted stupidly. I am sure this type of thing happens more often that what we would like and also not only in SA but every wjere around the world because not all individuals are the same or has tbe same moral standards.

I can assure you what i have heard on here is not at all what you can expect as the norm for hunting in Africa. But merely a few individuals that acted stupidly

My best and maybe we can share a cold one around a bush tv some day in the near future

 

[NickJ]

As a viewer I also thought the elephant should have been given another shot on the ground, however, for the balance of argument please consider a few:

Facts:

1. Directors of TV edit for effect. Philip Glass (the client who shot the elephant) has said on another forum (Africa Hunting) that the dying elephant sequence was the only part of the program he was not happy with the editing and the sequence was elongated with sound amplified/added. A director or producer will always maintain the right to edit as he sees fit. They want to make compelling content that get's people talking (and it has worked, here we are talking..)

2. When we shoot a deer we were told (before it became non-PC) to wait the time it takes to smoke a cigarette to let the deer bleed out.

And some personal opinions:

1. United we stand and divided we fall. Globally as hunters I feel we really need to try and find out all the facts before condemning fellow hunters. If we feel we should complain then a personal complaint to an appropriate body (i.e. African Professional Hunters Association) might be better for us all than on a public forum where we could generate fuel for the antis fire.

2. I too found the American's behaviour shooting the croc etc distasteful but if a TV producer searched for 'good content' here in the UK I think they'd find an extreme 'bad apple' who would make their program more controversial. I know a few. Cultures differ and we have to respect them. Our American friends might well find Brits 'blooding' after taking the first of a species or 'hollering' and blowing a hunting horn when spotting a fox odd.

All IMHO

 

[XYZ]

The elephant scene in the film was made worse than it was by the editing team. As alluded to previously the sound was added and made longer in a studio somewhere and I'm confident in saying the visual images were also made to be worse than they were in reality.
It is also possible (although I have no way of saying for sure) that the film crew wanted footage of the dying elephant and perhaps requested the final shot be delayed briefly whilst they filmed their material. Two cameras from different angles filming the same amount of time can be joined to make it twice as long and therefore give the impression of unnecessary suffering.
The PH in question has an impeccable reputation to my knowledge and I would not doubt his judgement over some filming and editing trickery.

 

[sauer]

Does it matter if it was edited or not? We might know it’s hyped up but how many of joe public bought that ?
How much more damage done to our passions / hobby / pastimes ?

This high fiving yee haaa bull ****
Lack of respect to quarry

Folks heads are buried in the sand ... change is already happening and we need to change be seen to change with it .... or our kids won’t be able to take for granted what we do now .
It’s already beginnng with questions over big bags and reared bird shooting!
We need to justify what we do and how we do it if we want to get the general public onside ....
Doesn’t matter if 5 minutes later they are more interested in some C list celebrity and who they are screwing this week.... these are the folks who vote etc
Like em or loathe em .... we need general public onside ....

Change is already started .... catch up
Or give up


Paul

 

[2130martin]

As a viewer I also thought the elephant should have been given another shot on the ground, however, for the balance of argument please consider a few:

Facts:

1. Directors of TV edit for effect. Philip Glass (the client who shot the elephant) has said on another forum (Africa Hunting) that the dying elephant sequence was the only part of the program he was not happy with the editing and the sequence was elongated with sound amplified/added. A director or producer will always maintain the right to edit as he sees fit. They want to make compelling content that get's people talking (and it has worked, here we are talking..)

2. When we shoot a deer we were told (before it became non-PC) to wait the time it takes to smoke a cigarette to let the deer bleed out.

And some personal opinions:

1. United we stand and divided we fall. Globally as hunters I feel we really need to try and find out all the facts before condemning fellow hunters. If we feel we should complain then a personal complaint to an appropriate body (i.e. African Professional Hunters Association) might be better for us all than on a public forum where we could generate fuel for the antis fire.

2. I too found the American's behaviour shooting the croc etc distasteful but if a TV producer searched for 'good content' here in the UK I think they'd find an extreme 'bad apple' who would make their program more controversial. I know a few. Cultures differ and we have to respect them. Our American friends might well find Brits 'blooding' after taking the first of a species or 'hollering' and blowing a hunting horn when spotting a fox odd.

All IMHO

Unfortunately the general public viewers don't think like you do. The damage is done...

 

[2130martin]

The elephant scene in the film was made worse than it was by the editing team. As alluded to previously the sound was added and made longer in a studio somewhere and I'm confident in saying the visual images were also made to be worse than they were in reality.
It is also possible (although I have no way of saying for sure) that the film crew wanted footage of the dying elephant and perhaps requested the final shot be delayed briefly whilst they filmed their material. Two cameras from different angles filming the same amount of time can be joined to make it twice as long and therefore give the impression of unnecessary suffering.
The PH in question has an impeccable reputation to my knowledge and I would not doubt his judgement over some filming and editing trickery.

Then the PH should have just refused and given them the correct footage,a humane kill!!

 

[2130martin]

Does it matter if it was edited or not? We might know it’s hyped up but how many of joe public bought that ?
How much more damage done to our passions / hobby / pastimes ?

This high fiving yee haaa bull ****
Lack of respect to quarry

Folks heads are buried in the sand ... change is already happening and we need to change be seen to change with it .... or our kids won’t be able to take for granted what we do now .
It’s already beginnng with questions over big bags and reared bird shooting!
We need to justify what we do and how we do it if we want to get the general public onside ....
Doesn’t matter if 5 minutes later they are more interested in some C list celebrity and who they are screwing this week.... these are the folks who vote etc
Like em or loathe em .... we need general public onside ....

Change is already started .... catch up
Or give up


Paul

+1

 

[2130martin]

Does it matter if it was edited or not? We might know it’s hyped up but how many of joe public bought that ?
How much more damage done to our passions / hobby / pastimes ?

This high fiving yee haaa bull ****
Lack of respect to quarry

Folks heads are buried in the sand ... change is already happening and we need to change be seen to change with it .... or our kids won’t be able to take for granted what we do now .
It’s already beginnng with questions over big bags and reared bird shooting!
We need to justify what we do and how we do it if we want to get the general public onside ....
Doesn’t matter if 5 minutes later they are more interested in some C list celebrity and who they are screwing this week.... these are the folks who vote etc
Like em or loathe em .... we need general public onside ....

Change is already started .... catch up
Or give up


Paul

+1

 

[deerwarden]

Then the PH should have just refused and given them the correct footage,a humane kill!!

Correct, the PH and the hunter would surely have had some input into the making and showing of the film, either way neither of them should have allowed the delay of another shot to finish the animal off. There is no justification to have allowed the animal to slowly expire as it did. I found the programme well balanced up until the elephant and the croc were taken. Then it became distasteful to any sportsman that respects his quarry enough, to ensure a clean kill, or in a instance where it goes wrong, a follow up shot is immediately taken to ensure the animal doesn't suffer unnecessary. I have hunted in Africa 6 times, and will go again, the PH I hunt with would most certainly have insisted upon another shot in that scenario we saw, or have finished the animal himself. I cannot understand why anyone wants to portray this as a true representation of hunting game in Africa, it certainly would not happen where I go. **** happens when taking animals with rifles at times, however a true sportsman would ensure a humane end to a wound/dying animal as soon as possible. This did not happen in this film, and there is no justification as to why it didn't at the time. deerwarden

 

[ljs]

Hi AdrianC,
spot on ,
You are completely right "The PH in question has an impeccable reputation to my knowledge and I would not doubt his judgement over some filming and editing trickery."
I personally know and have hunted with the PH (numerous times) whom hunted the elephant and guided the client , and was with him last week where we chatted about the film.
The actual footage shown was completely edited and broadcast to catch viewers without being agreed /signed off as per contract with the PH and client ,and when you listen to the actual correct story , the stalk ,the shot and the cull of this non trophy animal I am sure you would all agree about the TV and film footage ,

In fact his outfit won 2 of the biggest awards this year in hunting being , Dallas safari club outfitter of the year 2018 and The Ox of Okavango Award 2018 ,he and his wife do more for Hunting and conservation than anyone else at this present time to my knowledge and are at the fore front of the protection of the hunting industry , anti poaching ,as well as having massive battles with outfitters in SA re canned hunting ....
You could not get better advocates !!

 

[deerwarden]

Then the PH should have just refused and given them the correct footage,a humane kill!!

Correct, at the end of the day HE was in total control of what happened to any animal that was shot that day, and any of any filming that occurred in his presence. He is after all a "Professional hunter" who calls the shots, dictates which animals are to be taken. I have hunted in Africa 6 times, and the P.H.s I've hunted with always ensure the chosen beast is dealt with promptly should a final bullet be required. They however respected and earned their titles of that of a P.H. they have to jump through hoops to get the title, and then ensure they keep it by being "professional". I certainly could NOT have stood there and watched the creature die as It did. We all have had to, at some time to give a beast another shot to ensure an animal does not suffer needlessly, **** happenings and you deal with it as quickly as possible. THIS did not happen in the video, and should have done so, the P.H. should have ensured the animal was given the respect it deserved. deerwarden