DSC 1 Should there be more content

[Highlandsjohn]

I hope that you're charging for your time? If not, you're seeing off all of the professional grounds that charge and have overheads to pay?

Flippant bu$$chit..

 

[jimbo1984]

Sorry to hear about your dad.
So you would expect me to pay trade membership for encouraging people to undertake training and professional development to better themselves and promote deer welfare, even though I don't even specify a training provider? I've carried out literally hundreds of DSC 2 stalks as an a AW and charged the same amount for each one. Absolutely nothing! I've AW'd numerous people on this Site,
the last 3 I did was for sammyc on here. I didn't even charge him for fuel to get to the stalking ground so I am already out of pocket! I've also assessed huge of amounts portfolios including some by AW's such as Sika Malc. Yes, I do get paid for those, but it is a mere pittance which equates to less than minimum wage. I do this as a 'labour of love' effectively as I truly believe it promotes deer welfare and secures our future as deer managers. Do you really think I am some kind of trader by promoting training and experience to improve deer management and welfare? I believe I genuinely help less fortunate people to get into deer stalking which they couldn't otherwise afford. If you want me to pay extra for that, then I'll give it up as it will make my life easier and I'll be financially better off.
What would you advise now?
MS

Ok so I've a question , by promoting these courses and " qualifications " which let's face it are going to be mandatory one day to get an fac for deer by my reckoning for a newcomer to stalking to get to level 2 would cost them at the way I estimate around 800 quid that's before they've bought a rifle and all the other gear , how is this helping people into stalking that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it ??

 

[baguio]

Flippant bu$$chit..

Absolutely john, but that's exactly what​

Tim is saying (without the bad language that is totally unnecessary IMO). Tim is clearly against volunteering on one hand but then openly admits to doing it himself in his next post. You can't have it both ways!

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Absolutely john, but that's exactly what​

Tim is saying (without the bad language that is totally unnecessary IMO). Tim is clearly against volunteering on one hand but then openly admits to doing it himself in his next post. You can't have it both ways!

I withdraw the 'bull####',it was a spontaneous reaction. john

 

[baguio]

I withdraw the 'bull####',it was a spontaneous reaction. john

 

[baguio]

Ok so I've a question , by promoting these courses and " qualifications " which let's face it are going to be mandatory one day to get an fac for deer by my reckoning for a newcomer to stalking to get to level 2 would cost them at the way I estimate around 800 quid that's before they've bought a rifle and all the other gear , how is this helping people into stalking that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it ??

But jimbo, how many sports can you get into for free and expect them to stay free until you give up? Not many that I can think of. It wouldn't take long to rack up more than a couple of grand playing most sports. However, no other sport that I can think of will give you any return for your money either. In that respect deer management is quite good value don't you think?

 

[jimbo1984]

But jimbo, how many sports can you get into for free and expect them to stay free until you give up? Not many that I can think of. It would take long to rack up more than a couple of grand playing most sports. However, no other sport that I can think of will give you any return for your money either. In that respect deer management is quite good value don't you think?

My stalking is far from free Baguio granted I don't pay for the land but costs in high seats diesel ammo rifles scopes etc have run to well over a few grand for the patches I manage ( about 10000 acres ) I often let stalkers who have no ground out on mine for free however the majority of what I have is muntjac and roe with the occasional fallow the venison money barely covers diesel as I'm out 2-3 days a week , this is what I'm saying ... it expensive enough without making it more so

 

[baguio]

It could also be said that you shouldn't take up something that you can't afford. We don't go to the Ferrari garage and then complain about the cost of the cars do we? You don't decide to follow a Premiership football team home and away and then complain about the cost of the season ticket either. IMO stalking is much cheaper than most sports and can be done on a very small budget. Certainly you can buy everything you need for a few hundred quid. A set of Golf clubs cost much more!

 

[jimbo1984]

It could also be said that you shouldn't take up something that you can't afford. We don't go to the Ferrari garage and then complain about the cost of the cars do we? You don't decide to follow a Premiership football team home and away and then complain about the cost of the season ticket either. IMO stalking is much cheaper than most sports and can be done on a very small budget. Certainly you can buy everything you need for a few hundred quid. A set of Golf clubs cost much more!

I disagree that stalking can be done on a small budget when so many syndicates are insisting on dsc 2 first aid quad courses etc it's not cheap in the slightest
Rifles scopes highseats etc are essential kit that we need courses ( contrary to what rammed down throats on here ) are not !

 

[Highlandsjohn]

I disagree that stalking can be done on a small budget when so many syndicates are insisting on dsc 2 first aid quad courses etc it's not cheap in the slightest
Rifles scopes highseats etc are essential kit that we need courses ( contrary to what rammed down throats on here ) are not !

Whilst courses,kit and paraphernalia that do good for the welfare of deer and has to be commended.
Make no mistake, and I have been involved in shooting and field sports for as long as most on here with a few exceptions.

The welfare of the deer is the bi-product. Its a money spinning,profit making business.Anyone who cant see it needs to go to spec -savers.

A caveat I must add. I see a few professionals on here who try to run there business in a fair and sympathetic way to encourage young or new stalkers.

This forum is a good example,kudos to them. john

 

[JTO]

Its a money spinning,profit making business.Anyone who cant see it needs to go to spec -savers.

+1 There's a thing to say!

 

[baguio]

+1 There's a thing to say!

Absolute tosh. Anyone who runs a business of any description can see that there's no money in it. DSC2 had to go to an online format to break even! It actually makes me laugh when people say things like that. Work out all the costs involved in putting on a DSC1 course and see how much money is left over. Not much!
As for DSC2, well it only costs £160 to register so that isn't going to make anyone rich is it?
The fact that we could be the first ones to notice a serious disease which could close down whole swaths of our countryside should make it compulsory. If someone doesn't want to shell out for the qualification then deer stalking clearly isn't for them. That's just my opinion though. Clearly others don't think that it matters much? (Let's not forget that you can just sit the exams to save money)

 

[jimbo1984]

Whilst courses,kit and paraphernalia that do good for the welfare of deer and has to be commended.
Make no mistake, and I have been involved in shooting and field sports for as long as most on here with a few exceptions.

The welfare of the deer is the bi-product. Its a money spinning,profit making business.Anyone who cant see it needs to go to spec -savers.

A caveat I must add. I see a few professionals on here who try to run there business in a fair and sympathetic way to encourage young or new stalkers.

This forum is a good example,kudos to them. john

Well said !

 

[jimbo1984]

Absolute tosh. Anyone who runs a business of any description can see that there's no money in it. DSC2 had to go to an online format to break even! It actually makes me laugh when people say things like that. Work out all the costs involved in putting on a DSC1 course and see how much money is left over. Not much!
As for DSC2, well it only costs £160 to register so that isn't going to make anyone rich is it?
The fact that we could be the first ones to notice a serious disease which could close down whole swaths of our countryside should make it compulsory. If someone doesn't want to shell out for the qualification then deer stalking clearly isn't for them. That's just my opinion though. Clearly others don't think that it matters much? (Let's not forget that you can just sit the exams to save money)

Aye that's your opinion Baguio and many others beg to differ , as for dsc should be compulsory etc when it came out we were told that would not be the case .... I can't help but remember a gent on here a couple of weeks back with dsc qualification who couldn't identify the spleen ? Clearly you don't know it all

 

[baguio]

Aye that's your opinion Baguio and many others beg to differ , as for dsc should be compulsory etc when it came out we were told that would not be the case .... I can't help but remember a gent on here a couple of weeks back with dsc qualification who couldn't identify the spleen ? Clearly you don't know it all

That was slightly embarrassing I cannot deny. I knew what the liver looked like from visiting the butchers at 4 years old. I certainly didn't need to study anything to learn that one. I guess that that is what Supermarkets have done for us? I never have and never will claim to know it all Jimbo. That's not even possible. No course will claim to teach it all either. Not sure why you have even written that? Everyday is a school day IMO.

 

[zambezi]

I have been involved in shooting and field sports for as long as most on here with a few exceptions...Its a money spinning,profit making business.

Agree, in part. Certainly some working in the industry have found ways to generate a good living from shooting sports, using diverse business models.

...DSC2, well it only costs £160 to register so that isn't going to make anyone rich is it?

Agree. The tariffs that attend DSC1 and DSC2 will never make anyone or any business wealthy.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Thank you,
Do as you wish, however acting as a nearly free service only serves to take work away from those on here who charge and provide a professional service with all the overheads that come with what they provide.

By doing it for " free " lowers the rate and in turn the income which needs to be generated back into the sport.

As a business man you charge your rate for the work/service you provide, having a person willing to travel and provide a free service is not what you would want/need competing in todays economic climate...

I am sure those you help are grateful, however others who's work you take away might think differently, as why go to them when they can go to you.

The rates in shooting are at both ends of the scale £30.00 + for partridge, 10p later in the season with it in the chillier. A gold medal ££££ 2.80 a kg on the hook.


As nice a gesture as it is, you cant save the sport by doing it for free...

Edit this morning as last night was to late for maths, a member on here who I know very well is currently doing his dsc2.
The cost per stalk/witness is £150.

As you mention " I've carried out literally hundreds of DSC 2 stalks as an a AW"

If you equate hundreds in to a value of lets say 500

500 x £150 = £75000.00

That is 75k which has been potentially taken out of stalking operators pockets...

You once said to me in a reply " you don't know what you are doing"

75k is a lot of, you don't know what you are doing!

Tim.243

Tim,
I've undoubtedly been very fortunate and some would probably say lucky to have achieved all that I have in the deer management world.
However, I would also say that I have made my own luck to a greater extent.
I have never had to pay for a single stalk or anything really other than my equipment. Much of this has been down the kindness and goodwill of others who have helped me along my journey. I would never have been able to afford this journey without this.
I am now in a position where I get paid to stalk and manage estates for the richest family in the world and the biggest private land owner in Europe!
Would it not be rather hypocritical, if I were to charge people for the same goodwill which I can provide to others which are in a similar situation to that which I was in?
If you want controversial - I have even paid my sub-contractors whilst I witnessed their DSC level 2 stalks!
I have made stalking achievable to numerous people that quite simply couldn't have otherwise have fulfilled their dream.
I have even bought equipment for young lads (scopes, rifle and even a 4x4!) that have paid me back as and when they can.
If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, then quite frankly, I don't really care!
The owners of this site have managed to put less fortunate youngsters through their DSC 1 for free and will surely go to hell along with myself.
In my experience, people that can afford to throw money at deer stalking, often make the worst deer managers. They may only want to shoot trophy animals in fine weather and on their terms. Give me a young lad that has had to fight his way up every time, as it is him that will rough it in the depths of winter to achieve your cull.
But then, I don't know what I'm doing so maybe I've got it all wrong!?
MS

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Ok so I've a question , by promoting these courses and " qualifications " which let's face it are going to be mandatory one day to get an fac for deer by my reckoning for a newcomer to stalking to get to level 2 would cost them at the way I estimate around 800 quid that's before they've bought a rifle and all the other gear , how is this helping people into stalking that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it ??

Having just today finished running a DSC 1 course, it was apparent that many of them on there needed the certificate to get their FAC in the first instance!
I can also say that of all the hundreds of AW stalks I've carried out, absolutely every single one of them had their own rifle and equipment before doing their DSC 2.
I don't see anyone delaying their stalking career by having to pay £800 for qualification? Have you an example where this has actually happened, or are you just surmising?
MS

 

[jimbo1984]

Having just today finished running a DSC 1 course, it was apparent that many of them on there needed the certificate to get their FAC in the first instance!
I can also say that of all the hundreds of AW stalks I've carried out, absolutely every single one of them had their own rifle and equipment before doing their DSC 2.
I don't see anyone delaying their stalking career by having to pay £800 for qualification? Have you an example where this has actually happened, or are you just surmising?
MS

why did they need it to get fac ? That's not the law and when dsc came out we were told it wouldn't be used for that purpose, the thing is it's been pushed by " deer managers " such as your self for so long that flds are now using it to grant facs , job preservation for people like yourself yes but not lawful in the slightest ...
funny how you can say that to many stalkers 800 would be no stumbling block , your very vocal protege posted earlier that stalking can be done on a very small budget , now being a " deer manager " like yourself obviously he's correct , however to consider £800 pounds pocket change and also be on a small budget seems a little at odds don't you think ?

 

[baguio]

Jimbo, This isn't a politician's forum. "I don't see anyone delaying their stalking career by having to pay £800 for qualification? Have you an example where this has actually happened, or are you just surmising?
MS
Just answer the question truthfully!