For my job my thermal spotter is an absolute Godsend - its also brilliant for quickly finding the carcass. I've seen me stood mere feet from where the animal was shot and cannot see the damn thing in the undergrowth - the spotter saves masses of time for me at work. It helps with making the best efficiency of my time hugely. I have my doubts about NV as I think we all know how it can be used (and is to my knowledge by some folks). I can see how if we'd had thermal from our youth, we may not have developed quite the same field skills that we have, but given that some folks are paying a lot of money for their witnessed stalks, it seems rather unfair to not allow use of something which is more likely to direct them onto a deer whereas they might have drawn a blank that day otherwise and now have to find the money for another day - in fact, could this be the reason someone in BDS has pushed this ban? A financial interest in making sure witnessed stalks are not too efficient? Just a thought.
DMQ Ban Use of Thermal for Level 2
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jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
So if I use a thermal spotter to locate a deer on a hillside that's wrong but if I use binoculars that's OK ?
The deer maybe 600yrds away and I still need to stalk into it using all my skill and the lay of the land not to spook it before getting to a distance to take a humane shot.
You could argue that having a scope on your rifle is too much of an aid... although some no doubt would say that it's to enable a more humane placementof shot or some other reason.. my answer would be ''as many have said above it's stalking'' get closer then !
I don't use my thermal for deer simply because I can't be bothered to carry it along with all the other clobber I try to leave in the truck.
Each to their own I say. If it help you put meat in ya families belly cracking on
As ever I've my tin hat on awaiting the incoming
Jimmy
The deer maybe 600yrds away and I still need to stalk into it using all my skill and the lay of the land not to spook it before getting to a distance to take a humane shot.
You could argue that having a scope on your rifle is too much of an aid... although some no doubt would say that it's to enable a more humane placementof shot or some other reason.. my answer would be ''as many have said above it's stalking'' get closer then !
I don't use my thermal for deer simply because I can't be bothered to carry it along with all the other clobber I try to leave in the truck.
Each to their own I say. If it help you put meat in ya families belly cracking on
As ever I've my tin hat on awaiting the incoming
Jimmy
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
Haha just another thought....
They won't allow you to use new technology to find the deer but they have now insisted you use new technology to do the level 2 !!! ie... all had to go computerised !!!!!!
They won't allow you to use new technology to find the deer but they have now insisted you use new technology to do the level 2 !!! ie... all had to go computerised !!!!!!
Highlandsjohn
Well-Known Member
Three stalks or six stalks for success, a number cruncher has seen a drop in revenue.Follow the money and you'll get the answer.No using calculators now,too much technology.john
Since this is far and away the largest deer stalking forum in the UK, maybe someone from DMQ should come on here and explain the reasoning behind the decision.
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
exactly that. Dsc2 could be used as an indicator of competance and also used in a decision making process for a job or lease, its only fair that its baselined. The decision is correct in my opinion. I have L2 obtained without thermal but i use thermal regularly to both locate and stalk deer. I can do it without but my success rate is higher with it. Bit like letting a cabbie take the knowledge test using sat nav...
Chasey
Well-Known Member
That's what I thought
Akin to not being allowed to use sat nav during a driving test???
My attitude to Thermal is the same as any legal system. If it makes you happy and its humane, go for it.
I use a basic thermal for spotting and its a very useful tool but all it realy does is give you a general direction of where the deer are. The rest is down to glass and the shooter
I find thermal especially useful for getting to my seat in the pitch dark, not only showing me the way but also for letting me know if there are deer nearby that I should take extra care to avoid disturbing.
I have had conversations with cross bow and bow hunters who all feel stalking with a high powered rifle and modern scopes is way too easy / lacks any skill
Tough to argue with them
Sorry i do not agree with some of the previous posts. Thermals are an indispensable bit of kit. I thought it was the case when I purchased my Geovids, but now they are largely redundant for locating quarry species. Just because I have a thermal doesn't mean i shot more roe. Probably the contrary as I now have a better idea of the stock level in my shooting area.
In my case for getting a handle on my munties I cannot think how I would do it without my thermal. Case in point couple of weeks ago I was watching some roe on so recently silaged fields, which were easily visible, but only due to the thermal I saw a munty creeping though the headland grass. Even with my Zeiss on max mag I could barely discern it. Just confirmed another location for theses rather elusive tiny deer.
Its OK using a thermal to spot quarry but you still have to have the skill to stalk them. On occasions is does prevent you bumping deer, conversely it allows you to see them couched down and so avoid disturbing them when out after other things. Eg does in hazel hedges when your after a buck.
The BDS should move with the times, otherwise why should they allow use of binoculars?
Thermals are not going away so embrace the technology and move on.
D
In my case for getting a handle on my munties I cannot think how I would do it without my thermal. Case in point couple of weeks ago I was watching some roe on so recently silaged fields, which were easily visible, but only due to the thermal I saw a munty creeping though the headland grass. Even with my Zeiss on max mag I could barely discern it. Just confirmed another location for theses rather elusive tiny deer.
Its OK using a thermal to spot quarry but you still have to have the skill to stalk them. On occasions is does prevent you bumping deer, conversely it allows you to see them couched down and so avoid disturbing them when out after other things. Eg does in hazel hedges when your after a buck.
The BDS should move with the times, otherwise why should they allow use of binoculars?
Thermals are not going away so embrace the technology and move on.
D
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
thermals and thermal scopes will in the next few years see the demise of the deer population in a lot of areas. why would a recreational stalker want to spend thousands pounds on these to shoot a few deer ayear. dmq are spot on to ban them
cheers tom
Must admit thats similar to my view, also surprised how many folk have them now too.
When ur young/inexperienced u will miss/bump deer it's all part of learning, by the time ur going for dsc2 its not meant to be a 'beginners' ticket u should be learning and be more experienced so not bumping them.
Is it fair to compare a good experienced stalker doing dsc2 with a all the gear no idea newbie type guy with a thermal?
Stalking a deer is'nt normally hard esp when u kow where they are and theres nothing in between, hell the thermal wil even show birds up that could give the game away
1 thing which may be a problem in the future (and ur already seeing it with NV and foxes) many of the younger/newer shooters would really struggle to use a lamp on a fox esp if u've only used NV.
U only have to look at posts on here someone has 1 fox to shoot and the vast majority advise him to go out and spend 00's on NV gear.
Stalkers/keepers have managed fine for decades without it.
I generally think its good to learnthe old ways 1st, its very easy to change to modern technology but u do really struggle going backwards.
Could easy have a whole generation of shooters that can only use NV/thermal
I can see where ur coming from comparing it to scopes/pointy sticks etc and that u still need some fieldcraft etc and the thermal is just helping, but is it really that big a leap from there to using drones with thermal??
After all its only helping u spot deer, u still have to stalk it? (Obivously i'm against that but surely that is just embracing technology too??)
Just saving u a long walk if no deer are found up some gully/over a hill
geoffrey
Well-Known Member
I have been using Thermal for woodland fallow stalking. for those who have not had the pleasure of trying it I can confirm that although it is useful in spotting deer in woodland it is your binoculars that actually finds them, Often you spot a heat source and know that a group of deer are in front of you but trying to find them is a very different thing, I have stood looking through binoculars knowing full well that deer are ahead but its not until an ear twitches or a tail flicks that you see them. They are great for deer counts, inspecting shot sites (the blood shows up) and of course for locating lost or injured animals.
Also my landowner asks me to report animals sighted so it is very useful for making short videos.
I think that it should be up to the individual to decide if he or she wants to use it for dsc2 stalks, anybody can shoot a deer it’s what comes next that it important
Also my landowner asks me to report animals sighted so it is very useful for making short videos.
I think that it should be up to the individual to decide if he or she wants to use it for dsc2 stalks, anybody can shoot a deer it’s what comes next that it important
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Where are the BDS nay sayers getting their information from? I've not heard anything.
If anyone has any verifyable facts rather than possibly malicious rumours, please let us know.
Bashing the BDS is as stupid as bashing any other group that actually do work for wildlife & participants in our activities.
As always if something is wrong anywhere - do something yourself to put it right rather than bitching at those who actually try & sometimes fail in your eyes.
On the subject of technology, It isn't the equipment that's at fault it may be the morals, methods & motives of the user that should be under the microscope.
Ian
If anyone has any verifyable facts rather than possibly malicious rumours, please let us know.
Bashing the BDS is as stupid as bashing any other group that actually do work for wildlife & participants in our activities.
As always if something is wrong anywhere - do something yourself to put it right rather than bitching at those who actually try & sometimes fail in your eyes.
On the subject of technology, It isn't the equipment that's at fault it may be the morals, methods & motives of the user that should be under the microscope.
Ian
Some people seem to be confusing BDS with DMQ.
BDS are simply one of ten Assessment Centres linked to DMQ.
Take a look at the DMQ website for more information including the recent newsletter that refers to the use of TI: Deer Management Qualification Setting the standards for wild deer management
BDS are simply one of ten Assessment Centres linked to DMQ.
Take a look at the DMQ website for more information including the recent newsletter that refers to the use of TI: Deer Management Qualification Setting the standards for wild deer management
Thermal is a tool to do a job, thats all.
If you're a recreational stalker you can use one or not as your preferences (and budget) dictate. If you're a professional who has a cull number to hit and a date to hit that number by then I can see thermal being a very useful tool to have in the bag.
In any case its also a useful tool for carcass tracking if you dont have a deer dog handy.
I can see why some people like it and I can see why some people dont. Its horses for courses.
If DSC2 says "no thermal" then ok, its their qualification and they can run it how they want to. Its only three deer after all. Do the stalks, get the bit of paper and go back to using your thermal if you want to after that.
If you're a recreational stalker you can use one or not as your preferences (and budget) dictate. If you're a professional who has a cull number to hit and a date to hit that number by then I can see thermal being a very useful tool to have in the bag.
In any case its also a useful tool for carcass tracking if you dont have a deer dog handy.
I can see why some people like it and I can see why some people dont. Its horses for courses.
If DSC2 says "no thermal" then ok, its their qualification and they can run it how they want to. Its only three deer after all. Do the stalks, get the bit of paper and go back to using your thermal if you want to after that.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
I think you will find it is now part of the driving test that you have to follow a sat nav for part of it!
MS
I can only see the reasons recreational deer stalker using them being:
a. Laziness
b. The main element of their experience is shooting/killing
my response would be, a. Find another hobby - b. Go to the shooting range instead.
the use of thermal will strengthen the case for anti’s and hasten further gun regulation as it makes it look like stalkers are only interested in finding a easy kill. The usage and spreading of that technology will make for a quicker end to private and recreational deerstalking in that with very low deer populations, the police might make it a stick to beat you with in saying you don’t have a good reason for gun ownership.
as David Attenborough says...”they are singing the song of their own demise”
a. Laziness
b. The main element of their experience is shooting/killing
my response would be, a. Find another hobby - b. Go to the shooting range instead.
the use of thermal will strengthen the case for anti’s and hasten further gun regulation as it makes it look like stalkers are only interested in finding a easy kill. The usage and spreading of that technology will make for a quicker end to private and recreational deerstalking in that with very low deer populations, the police might make it a stick to beat you with in saying you don’t have a good reason for gun ownership.
as David Attenborough says...”they are singing the song of their own demise”
thermals and thermal scopes will in the next few years see the demise of the deer population in a lot of areas. why would a recreational stalker want to spend thousands pounds on these to shoot a few deer ayear. dmq are spot on to ban them
Because a lot of us do pest and predator control at night, for me the deer is a sideline to those things.
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