Sending of Firearms Certificate to a dealer?

[Sheprador1973]

Youll note post #2, which if I’m not mistaken is what sheprador was told by his very own force..... funny it needed to descend to the level it did thereafter. Ho hum! Seems to be silly season on here at present.

Shame as Ive just found out the 'main offender' is a member that I just posted a free scope to for his son

 

[ChesterP]

It's been law ever since I've had a certificate and that's some years! What has happened in the past two years or so is that there's been a tightening up on the law, with police, BASC, GTA and others all singing from the same hymn sheet and this because so many RFDs and FAC holders were bending the rules (don't shoot the messenger!) and not complying with the law. It is neither confusing nor nonsensical, but is really quite simple. If you buy a firearm then the law clearly states that the SELLER must enter the details directly onto YOUR FAC, (read your FAC...it is stated on there) hence mail order or not, your FAC must be presented to the seller who in turn completes the details and you get it back. No problem with doing this by post because in the extremely unlikely event your cert goes missing, it is reported to your FEO and a duplicate issued. The more sensible will use Special Delivery which is warranted post, so there is no need for any dramas. I've bought and sold firearms this way multiple times.

 

[Frank Homes]

It's been law ever since I've had a certificate and that's some years! What has happened in the past two years or so is that there's been a tightening up on the law, with police, BASC, GTA and others all singing from the same hymn sheet and this because so many RFDs and FAC holders were bending the rules (don't shoot the messenger!) and not complying with the law. It is neither confusing nor nonsensical, but is really quite simple. If you buy a firearm then the law clearly states that the SELLER must enter the details directly onto YOUR FAC, (read your FAC...it is stated on there) hence mail order or not, your FAC must be presented to the seller who in turn completes the details and you get it back. No problem with doing this by post because in the extremely unlikely event your cert goes missing, it is reported to your FEO and a duplicate issued. The more sensible will use Special Delivery which is warranted post, so there is no need for any dramas. I've bought and sold firearms this way multiple times.

Thank you Chester P sense at last; it is the interpretation of S. 32 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 that is the issue so it is legal guidance based on the Act

F

 

[labrador77]

Thank you Chester P sense at last; it is the interpretation of S. 32 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 that is the issue so it is legal guidance based on the Act

F

+1, explains what I was trying to put across but better!

 

[Sheprador1973]

It's been law ever since I've had a certificate and that's some years! What has happened in the past two years or so is that there's been a tightening up on the law, with police, BASC, GTA and others all singing from the same hymn sheet and this because so many RFDs and FAC holders were bending the rules (don't shoot the messenger!) and not complying with the law. It is neither confusing nor nonsensical, but is really quite simple. If you buy a firearm then the law clearly states that the SELLER must enter the details directly onto YOUR FAC, (read your FAC...it is stated on there) hence mail order or not, your FAC must be presented to the seller who in turn completes the details and you get it back. No problem with doing this by post because in the extremely unlikely event your cert goes missing, it is reported to your FEO and a duplicate issued. The more sensible will use Special Delivery which is warranted post, so there is no need for any dramas. I've bought and sold firearms this way multiple times.

I better just do it then eh? Thanks ChesterP

 

[sy247]

Agreed. I have never had to do it, and wouldn't.

I wouldn't post your FAC to anyone. Speak to the seller and insist on an RFD to RFD transfer, then a face-to-face handover. This new 'send me your FAC' thing reeks to me of nonsense. I couldn't care less what any issuing force decides is their new 'guideline'. Once we start allowing them to dictate what we should, and shouldn't be doing it's a slippery slope. Follow the terms and conditions on your FAC regarding the transfer of firearms and you can't go wrong

 

[S&L7x57]

It's been law ever since I've had a certificate and that's some years! What has happened in the past two years or so is that there's been a tightening up on the law, with police, BASC, GTA and others all singing from the same hymn sheet and this because so many RFDs and FAC holders were bending the rules (don't shoot the messenger!) and not complying with the law. It is neither confusing nor nonsensical, but is really quite simple. If you buy a firearm then the law clearly states that the SELLER must enter the details directly onto YOUR FAC, (read your FAC...it is stated on there) hence mail order or not, your FAC must be presented to the seller who in turn completes the details and you get it back. No problem with doing this by post because in the extremely unlikely event your cert goes missing, it is reported to your FEO and a duplicate issued. The more sensible will use Special Delivery which is warranted post, so there is no need for any dramas. I've bought and sold firearms this way multiple times.

Very succinctly put, thank you.

I don't suppose there is any reason that an RFD can not 'sell', in reality just transfer, a weapon to another RFD who then makes the 'sale'. However that would put the 'selling' RFD in an invidious position as he would become the vendor in law and be responsible for any warrantee or product liability/insurance issues with the firearm.
With that in mind, I most certainly will not be doing any transfers on behalf of remote vendors unless THEY have completed the purchasers SGC/FAC.
£25 in a small return for possibly spending time in the courts!

 

[Woodsmoke]

I've just had a closer look at Section 4 on my FAC. It seems I've technically been in breach of the law with every firearm I've purchased up until now

I stand corrected!

 

[Markfox]

As I said previously, if you get your RFD to buy the rifle etc it can then be RFD transferred and the buyer just pays his RFD for Rifle and transfer cost and who will enter it on a FAC nice and easy

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Should not Must....

Guidance not Law....

 

[deerstalker.308]

Should not Must....

Guidance not Law....

Well it doesn’t suggest any alternative though does it..... it’s not as if it says you “should” or alternatively get the rfd to do it” on your thinking we can just make it up as we go along and do what we like as the license is simply a guide surely??

 

[Lord V]

Should not Must....

Guidance not Law....

Except you must follow Guidance unless you can demonstrate a compelling reason not to. (Goes without saying that 'I don't want to' doesn't count)

Weight is given to conflicting guidance based on the 'level' of authorship (ie - central government guidance trumps local authority guidance) So frankly what's printed on my (and everyone else's certificate) quite significantly trumps the advice of an RFD.

For crying out loud - the whole Drs letter/payment saga is almost solely based on the police not following guidance. If we can't be bothered why should they?

 

[kenbro]

There was a time when a policeman would knock on your door to deliver your FAC.
Now, they are delivered by snail mail, so why should anyone else worry about sending their certificate to someone else to complete a purchase?
Ken.

 

[Lord V]

Also that. Why the fear of sending it. if it gets lost it's a ball ache but there is a system for replacements.

The picture on my current one is equal quality to my passport so it would take a very fortunate Crim with my stunning looks in order to impersonate me and more importantly wanted/knew what to do with whatever the slot on my ticket was for.

They could go to the hassle of trying to change your address to theirs I suppose. But that would come a cropper when you reported it lost and wanted a replacement. So that deception wouldn't last long.

Similarly if they tried to make any other change.

Im struggling to think of anything else.