wildfowler.250
Well-Known Member
Cheers guys. Let’s not go too exotic 
Something standard that I can buy off the shelf is always good
Something standard that I can buy off the shelf is always good6.5x55 or .243?
- Thread starter wildfowler.250
- Start date
unfirtunately we don’t have the option to download the .243 much as we have muzzle energy and in Scotland weight and velocity restrictions to contend with.
nosoer provide reloading data for modern actions
I've got a 6.5x55 Mauser and If I could only have one rifle (I have six) it would be the Swede I home load TTSX and have been using factory RWS (bit on the violent side).
Steve
Steve
norma 308
Well-Known Member
Never used my swede much till I changed the stock on my mannlicher to a form and it transformed it ! I’ve even been foxing with it over the 22/25o, wouldn’t go back to 243 I’d feel under gunned not everyone’s experience but I had more runners with chest shot fallow when I had one .
I'll buck the trend I'm a huge .243fan , as a pro stalker red and roe I have used most of the usual stalking calibers ,estate rifles etc. but .243 is still my go to rifle of choice, never felt under gunned on Highland reds big Southern stags maybe a different story but certainly does all that I have ever needed of it.
Chasey
Well-Known Member
I agree I much prefer the 243 and its accounted for 95% of my deer.
Only use the 65-55 for walk and stalk where a bit more margin of error is required off sticks
That is very helpful information '25 Sharps' if that is so!? I don't own a reloading manual from Nosler as initially I went for those manuals specifically produced by those manufacturing companies that ALSO provide us with the various propellants, reasoning that they would be more inclusive within their specific brand names. Sounds as if a Nosler manual would then be a good investment for me eh?...
How do Nosler manuals designate those loads meant for (ONLY to be used in) new, strong, commercial actions then please my friend??
I do have to admit being well annoyed at finding that many (most) of the powder manufacturers who's load tables for firearms like the 6.5x55 Swedish do so ONLY for the ORIGINAL (inherently WEAKER) historic firearms). Due to the American's highly litigation driven society they often do not extend their load data to the modern, stronger chambered firearms in the same older calibers "JUST IN CASE" some none too clever 'Numpty' uses this in the original, weaker firearms and blows up their prize old Wartime original,.. or even worse?!... This kind of ''Big Daddy' mentality and approach to releasing (NOT??) quality, useful reloading data I find both Highly Aggravating AND truly Condescending.
ATB ...... and shoot Safely!
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Limpet
Well-Known Member
I think the Lee manual uses higher velocities and powder charges than the Nosler manual..... either way, I have still not found any pressure signs even at top of scale from the Lee manual.
wildfowler.250
Well-Known Member
Ah the debate still goes on. So what is preferable about the .243 then? If you’re sticking to 100grain is it that much flatter? Surely the 6.5 can’t be far off at ‘sensible’ distances?
Flatness is one great big hoax. Nothing is flat. You can vary the zero distance or use MPBR or whatever to work out the best ballistic compromise for your rifle and load, or do what I do for which is zero at whatever distance results in 50m and 150m being bang on, and memorise the drops to a certain range and use a sensible BDC reticle.
The .243 when loaded to legal limit (as I have been reminded of again, sorry I always forget) is more than adequate for a red deer, yes bring it on naysayers you all need to go back to the “where to shoot it” class and resit the exam. It is also a fantastic varmint cartridge. It is a flexible, adaptable, do it all cartridge with a massive selection of bullets. And a massive following worldwide.
But seeing as how you are a hand loader, none of this makes a jot of difference because you can just as easily get the Swede to do pretty much whatever you want it to do.
Personally, with a .22-250 and a .270 already in the safe I wouldn’t go for a .243 or a Swede, I’d put my sensible hat on and get a 6.5 Creedmoor, follow the sensible advice in the Creedmoor load threads with a high BC bullet and have yourself a sensible rifle that will shoot zero to 1000m extremely accurately and open up a whole new world of fun. But that’s just me (and many many hundreds of thousands of others) who aren’t allergic to modern trends and willing to adopt new stuff instead of automatically lambasting anything developed since 1970 as new fangled marketing hype!
The .243 when loaded to legal limit (as I have been reminded of again, sorry I always forget) is more than adequate for a red deer, yes bring it on naysayers you all need to go back to the “where to shoot it” class and resit the exam. It is also a fantastic varmint cartridge. It is a flexible, adaptable, do it all cartridge with a massive selection of bullets. And a massive following worldwide.
But seeing as how you are a hand loader, none of this makes a jot of difference because you can just as easily get the Swede to do pretty much whatever you want it to do.
Personally, with a .22-250 and a .270 already in the safe I wouldn’t go for a .243 or a Swede, I’d put my sensible hat on and get a 6.5 Creedmoor, follow the sensible advice in the Creedmoor load threads with a high BC bullet and have yourself a sensible rifle that will shoot zero to 1000m extremely accurately and open up a whole new world of fun. But that’s just me (and many many hundreds of thousands of others) who aren’t allergic to modern trends and willing to adopt new stuff instead of automatically lambasting anything developed since 1970 as new fangled marketing hype!
The deer man
Well-Known Member
It's not, 0.2" difference at 200 yards at the very most and that's assuming the .243 rifle being used can shoot the 100gr bullet accurately, some do some definitely don't. It maybe the .243/100g accuracy cannot match the difference making the 6.5x55 "flatter" if it's really that important!?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
243 for most deer, certainly up here in Scotland, you need the 100gn bullet, but they probably shoot better with the 90 / 95gn (silly laws). 243 is a higher pressure round and can be a bit picky in terms of ammo.
For Vermin - the 22-250 does everything the 243 can do and probably works just as well on deer with the correct bullet and where legal.
6.5 x55 / Creedmore etc all seem to be very good and knock deer over very well. But probably a cigarette paper in real terms between one of these and the 270. Again down to choice of load and bullet.
If I was in your position I would keep the 22-250 and 270 set up for longer range use with appropriate scope - open hill use etc.
I would partner it with a 7x57, 7mm08 or 308 in a lighter weight rifle with a lower power scope for use in the woods, and at shooter ranges, but in the knowledge you still have the reach and ability to use bigger bullets for bigger / tougher animals at closer range.
For Vermin - the 22-250 does everything the 243 can do and probably works just as well on deer with the correct bullet and where legal.
6.5 x55 / Creedmore etc all seem to be very good and knock deer over very well. But probably a cigarette paper in real terms between one of these and the 270. Again down to choice of load and bullet.
If I was in your position I would keep the 22-250 and 270 set up for longer range use with appropriate scope - open hill use etc.
I would partner it with a 7x57, 7mm08 or 308 in a lighter weight rifle with a lower power scope for use in the woods, and at shooter ranges, but in the knowledge you still have the reach and ability to use bigger bullets for bigger / tougher animals at closer range.
Hiya 'dodgylnees'.. (Great name BTW!)
I believe part of the ethos behind the original design considerations encapsulated in Nosler Partitions is that the bullets have a mixed (dual) personality. .....
That exposed lead Soft Point will generally expand quickly on encountering resistance to flight as on the initial strike, as per a 'standard' softpoint design. The nose sheds energy and some of its mass and opens up to give an expanded frontal area. This imparts a portion of the impact energy, producing a reasonable temporary and permanent wound cavity to be carried forwards into the target animal.
Then the bullet continues to drive on forward, destroying tissue (and hopefully vital organs) due to the strength of the bullet shank that is held together by the cleverly designed internal jacket material 'diaphragm' that hold the shank element together and effectively arrests any further destruction of the bullet....
Depending on the energy still held within, the projectile then puts on face #2, pushing on through the target animal in a similar manner to those new(ish) 'Monolithic' copper bullets, not shedding any more mass due to the strengthened internal construction, till it either stops on the far side of the animal OR if the shot was taken at short distance, till it exits on the far side of said....
With a classical chest cavity shot this produces what is called a through & through "sucking wound" which should quickly bring life to an end having collapsed BOTH lungs and likely damaged the heart beyond functioning..... I believe this is what you have witnessed occurring on those African deer species - you lucky, lucky devil you!!
This means that one can take more angular - raking - shots with the various Partitions and have reasonable expectations of collecting a downed critter than one would have with similar, angular shots when employing traditional game softpoints.
ATB....... and shoot safely!
I don't use their manual, I use their website, which also states new firearms in good condition and that older military models should be checked by a competent gunsmith.
"In a high quality rifle, accuracy of the “Swede” is excellent, and it's ability to handle long, 140 grain bullets makes it a great choice for all but the largest of North American big game species. These loads are intended for use only with new firearms in good condition. If you are using an older military rifle, or are unsure as to the condition of your firearm, it must be thoroughly inspected by a competent gunsmith before use."
https://www.nosler.com/65x55-swedish-mauser
follow the above link for the source of the quote and the load data. Must admit I like the nosler site as it gives data for several manufacturers and though it is only for their bullets they have several types so say ballistic tip and flat base soft point for any given weight.
viht also provide 2 sets of data, older actions and SKAN data, though confusingly for some bullets the Mauser data is hotter than the Skan!
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That (Blobby's) description of how the Partition is meant to work is just as John Nosler himself described it in his modest autobiography.
It seems that this conflicts nowadays with the must-have requirements for many US 'hunters' of massive expansion, massive penetration, and near 100% weight retention as the Partition design will shed a lot of its weight on large animals with deep penetration, much of the front section being shed. Nosler says that this is intended in his design.
There is a story - maybe apocryphal - of the tyro who was preparing for his first moose hunt and who asked the gunshop assistant for advice on bullets, the Partition being recommended and purchased. Some weeks later the customer reappears with a complaint demanding to speak to the store manager and when seen drops a much battered and truncated recovered bullet in his hand. Look at this says the customer, this bullet your assistant recommended lost 40% of its weight in the moose. .... quite unacceptable ... and so on, and so forth, yada, yada. The manager says nothing until the complainant finally runs out of the steam, and only asks: ...... and the moose, Sir? Oh, it fell down dead on the spot immediately says the man.
It seems that this conflicts nowadays with the must-have requirements for many US 'hunters' of massive expansion, massive penetration, and near 100% weight retention as the Partition design will shed a lot of its weight on large animals with deep penetration, much of the front section being shed. Nosler says that this is intended in his design.
There is a story - maybe apocryphal - of the tyro who was preparing for his first moose hunt and who asked the gunshop assistant for advice on bullets, the Partition being recommended and purchased. Some weeks later the customer reappears with a complaint demanding to speak to the store manager and when seen drops a much battered and truncated recovered bullet in his hand. Look at this says the customer, this bullet your assistant recommended lost 40% of its weight in the moose. .... quite unacceptable ... and so on, and so forth, yada, yada. The manager says nothing until the complainant finally runs out of the steam, and only asks: ...... and the moose, Sir? Oh, it fell down dead on the spot immediately says the man.
Very much agreed 'wildfowler.250' , ESPECIALLY if one is using the .243 with "legal" deer rounds where the projectile HAS specific performance properties to be adhered to, those being a minimum of 100grs bullet weight and a minimum muzzle velocity something around 2450fps I believe!? Adherence to this arbitrary but legally binding set of specifications will considerably hobble the .243 when considered in comparison to similarly worked up (light weight!) rounds for the 6.5x55 Swede.......
In the Swede one can, if desired, load a 100gr projectile to something in the order of 3200fps, trumping the slightly smaller .243 round for that much vaunted "flatter trajectory"..
ATB ...... and shoot safely!
Thank you 'Laurie', and good of you to confirm that I got Mr. Nosler's 'Partition Story' correct... I find them near ideal, if a tad expensive when one considers they are sold in packs of 50 pieces at a time (so double the costs to be directly comparative) rather than the regular 100s that most other manufacturers choose to pack their billets in.
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