EU Withdrawal Agreement....

[Sauer90]

The only thing I remember may for is her talking about shoes, has been nothing but a waste of oxygen

 

[NoIDeer]

Isn't this a withdrawal agreement? Under this agreement talks, legally, can start on a trade agreement between the eu and uk. Makes some sense to me.
Hope the small print has been read properly.

I'm a brexiteer btw.

 

[ChesterP]

This is not much different to remaining as if we remain in an EU-UK customs union of sorts (tba based on likely poorer terms than before we "left") by implication of everything pertaining to a customs union, we also must adopt EU legislative Directives and will not be free to commit to any trade deals outside of the EU until such time as the N Ireland solution is agreed and effected. Until then, we remain as a sub-colony of the EU, with no say (unlike before), with possibly poorer terms and effectively, the EU remain calling all the shots. It's the worst possible outcome for the UK and May should have to answer to Parliament (and will) for such a disastrous outcome. No deal would have been the better choice in the circumstances as we are not, now, free to leave the customs union any time we like. May has sold the country out. We have withdrawn from nothing and anyone believing Government lies about "we are free to paddle our own boat now" are only deluding themselves. We are not. I look forward now to the response from back-benchers (especially Rees-Mogg) and the DUP. I cannot believe that the Cabinet backed our hapless PM on this and am dismayed beyond belief. What a disaster for the UK.

 

[oowee]

You may (no pun intended) not agree with where she has got the negotiation but no one else stepped up to the task. No one else was prepared to do the work sort the detail and put that level of effort in. I have worked with Boris and I would not expect him to read to the end of a lunch menu let alone read and understand the detail of a withdrawal agreement. He is the ultimate superficial face of populist commentary.

 

[Chasey]

FFS this isn't "the deal" its a map for moving forward through the transition period towards the deal

It preserves some form of frictionless irish border, citizens rights and economic trade. All good things

I dont know what your all saying about May? Shes done a stunning job of being the patsy

She will be kicked out and the Conartists will claim it all May's fault and not the Conservatives for starting this whole disaster and if X person had been n control wed have an amazing Brexit deel

Fine, if you believed that for one second why not put X in control

Get it through your heads, There is no good Brexit deel they are all different shades of bad starting with a no deal which is a bottomless pit of black

And dont say Gove scupperd Boris from being PM? Boris went and hid behind his sofa. He didn't expect to win the Brexit vote but wanted the loss to be his platform for a push to leadership When he actualy won he cacked his pants and ran away from the disaster that would be being PM through the deel period. He had public and media support and could have blasted past any blockage from Gove if he had the mind to do it.

But inst this the same Borris who said yesterday this deal would lose the UK its sovereignty for the first time in 1000 years??? Hang on Borris I thought we had not sovereignty under our membership of the EU, make your mind up.

Borris was mildly amusing on HIGNFY and hit his sweet spot as Mayor of London as the affable buffoon. Sadly now his dark side has been exposed and hes a dangerous moron who will tell any lie to get into power. Hes the UKs Trump but without the wit or charm.

 

[ChesterP]

But Owee, isn't that just a sad reflection of the state of British Politics? (and the lack of calibre of British politicians).

Hard work or not, there was still the "no deal" option which left us legally free to embark on WTO rule trading with other partners. That and being free of the shackles of the EU was, after all, the whole point of the damned referendum. Your point is not lost about about May's work, but the outcome is still a disaster whatever way you look at it. We are, however, jumping the gun a little as it has not yet been ratified by Parliament nor has it received the backing of other parties, necessary for the deal to be concluded. Lets wait and see what happens.

I think that we're all aware that this is just a transition deal but it passes a hell of a lot of power and say to the EU about just when we can transition to a full withdrawl and that is not what people wanted or voted for. The problem with this, as reported today in the press, is that it remains very unclear about just when we can now untangle ourselves and at what coast.

 

[BryanDC]

I don't get it. Did anyone really think there was another option. Did anyone really believe that out meant out and if they did do they really know what that would mean to Britain's economy. Do you really think Britain can stand on it's own? We are not the imperial nation that we once were and now we don't even have a voice in the future of Europe. I think there are aspects of the EU that stink, such as the continued expansion of it regardless of new member countries economy and stability. This is crazy and needs to stop, but I would rather be on the inside with a vote than on the outside having to tow the line with no voice.

May must have been mad to take on this job. she won't win whatever the outcome. So if she is ousted and there is a general election, just think who you will get instead. I doubt that the conservatives will win it.

 

[bowji john]

Under this agreement the EU would have us by the short and curlies.

For them it is a dream come true - they continue to control us both commercially and politically and at the same time remove an irritating political presence from the decision making system

There would be NO motivation to come to any kind of trade deal - just keep us under their heel in perpetuity

I bet they couldn't believe their luck when we chose such a spineless leader

I don't see where we go from here

I suspect we are being engineered into remaining in this new totalitarian state

At which point voting in the future will be pointless as power will reside with a foreign power

 

[ChesterP]

FFS this isn't "the deal" its a map for moving forward through the transition period towards the deal

It preserves some form of frictionless irish border, citizens rights and economic trade. All good things

I dont know what your all saying about May? Shes done a stunning job of being the patsy

She will be kicked out and the Conartists will claim it all May's fault and not the Conservatives for starting this whole disaster and if X person had been n control wed have an amazing Brexit deel

Fine, if you believed that for one second why not put X in control

Get it through your heads, There is no good Brexit deel they are all different shades of bad starting with a no deal which is a bottomless pit of black

And dont say Gove scupperd Boris from being PM? Boris went and hid behind his sofa. He didn't expect to win the Brexit vote but wanted the loss to be his platform for a push to leadership When he actualy won he cacked his pants and ran away from the disaster that would be being PM through the deel period. He had public and media support and could have blasted past any blockage from Gove if he had the mind to do it.

But inst this the same Borris who said yesterday this deal would lose the UK its sovereignty for the first time in 1000 years??? Hang on Borris I thought we had not sovereignty under our membership of the EU, make your mind up.

Borris was mildly amusing on HIGNFY and hit his sweet spot as Mayor of London as the affable buffoon. Sadly now his dark side has been exposed and hes a dangerous moron who will tell any lie to get into power. Hes the UKs Trump but without the wit or charm.

Chasey, you get far too ahead of yourself. Please remove the words from my mouth that I have not said .

You miss the point entirely. I am not backing Boris or Gove or anyone else and have not mentioned him. You are the one making assumptions there my friend. Your assertion that May has done a "stunning job" might be your opinion, but it is not shared by, I suspect, a good deal of the population or other parliamentarians. Yes, we should have had more politicians with backbone come forward and we didn't but agonising over that is not productive to our current situation. All we can do is to wait and see what happens now, but for many of us, this is not the best possible outcome and May has failed to deliver on her earlier promise that "no deal is better than a bad deal".

 

[ChesterP]

I don't get it. Did anyone really think there was another option. Did anyone really believe that out meant out and if they did do they really know what that would mean to Britain's economy. Do you really think Britain can stand on it's own? We are not the imperial nation that we once were and now we don't even have a voice in the future of Europe. I think there are aspects of the EU that stink, such as the continued expansion of it regardless of new member countries economy and stability. This is crazy and needs to stop, but I would rather be on the inside with a vote than on the outside having to tow the line with no voice.

May must have been mad to take on this job. she won't win whatever the outcome. So if she is ousted and there is a general election, just think who you will get instead. I doubt that the conservatives will win it.

You seriously believe that? Of course we had an option! Too much short term thinking has influenced the whole debate from start to finish!

 

[jimmy milnes]

When you do a deal with someone in my opinion each side will compromise a little and some common ground is found isn't it ?
Can someone tell me briefly ''as I'm at work and don't have time just not to read the op properly'' what the EU has compromised in this deal please
Cheers
Jimmy

 

[BryanDC]

You seriously believe that? Of course we had an option! Too much short term thinking has influenced the whole debate from start to finish!

Yes I do seriously believe that. I also think that many of the pro brexit campaigners never really expected the vote to go their way and when it did they all went and buried their heads in the sand or hid behind the curtains.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Edit

 

[jimmy milnes]

Yes I do seriously believe that. I also think that many of the pro brexit campaigners never really expected the vote to go their way and when it did they all went and buried their heads in the sand or hid behind the curtains.

Just like Dave did then ?

 

[oowee]

But Owee, isn't that just a sad reflection of the state of British Politics? (and the lack of calibre of British politicians).

Hard work or not, there was still the "no deal" option which left us legally free to embark on WTO rule trading with other partners. That and being free of the shackles of the EU was, after all, the whole point of the damned referendum. Your point is not lost about about May's work, but the outcome is still a disaster whatever way you look at it. We are, however, jumping the gun a little as it has not yet been ratified by Parliament nor has it received the backing of other parties, necessary for the deal to be concluded. Lets wait and see what happens.

I think that we're all aware that this is just a transition deal but it passes a hell of a lot of power and say to the EU about just when we can transition to a full withdrawl and that is not what people wanted or voted for. The problem with this, as reported today in the press, is that it remains very unclear about just when we can now untangle ourselves and at what coast.

I would have thought we knew what politicians we had at the time we voted to go down this route? We (as a Country) chose to put delicate, complicated and very difficult negotiations in the hands of our politicians. We chose to give our politicians a simple remit of out with no plan. We chose to put our politicians and resources into bat against 27 member states and a commission and give them two years to thrash out a road map for disengagement of a process that is 40 years plus in the making. What did we expect the result to be?

WTO is not simply a matter of applying a tariff. We would have to agree what the tariffs are and how they should be applied. Someone in the DIT told me two years ago that they had estimated over 8 years to agree WTO rules applicable for export. As an example multiple tariffs for a joint of pork depending on the way it was butchered.

 

[BryanDC]

Just like Dave did then ?

Yes, and I'm pretty sure Labour didn't want it either. Who would want a job like that. May must have been mad to take it on. Maybe some of the brexit campaigners should have been forced into it.

 

[Pine Marten]

As alluded to elsewhere I can't think of a more succinct summery:

We've had Fantasy Brexit now let's engage with reality.

K

My American colleague just asked whether Brexit was over now. Thanks to your comment I was able to tell him that Fantasy League Brexit was over. The real car crash is only just starting. "It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning!" (yes I know, treasonous quote).

 

[JockStalk]

Reminds me of the 'negotiations' for a better deal with EU that Cameron held.
I have great respect for the resilience and determination May has shown throughout.
But I think we need something beyond a death-grip on securing 'a deal'. Based on track record, EU will never do anything that does not fit with the eurocrats vision of how things should be done. Is it therefore any surprise that the only deal they will offer is one that largely resembles the status quo in all but name.
Sadly, my opinion now is the apparently 'here be monsters' land of no-deal exit from EU is a land of opportunity away from these idiots.
They are unwilling to strike a deal? No problem. Thanks very much, for the last 45 years.
Now, if you want us to keep buying your stuff, lets agree a sensible trade arrangement?
JS

 

[bowji john]

Raab now gone

May is toast

There is going to be overwhelming pressure for either an election or another referendum

I'd rather see an election - but not between Labor and the Conservatives - neither can be trusted to deliver the people's choice

Fanciful I know, but I'd rather see two new parties emerging - one pro remaining and one pro leaving (really leaving) - that way who ever holds the reigns of power might be trusted to deliver

We would not get that with a second referendum as the reality of the purposes of a second referendum is really - ''please change your minds about leaving''

It is an attempt to give a veneer of democracy to the actions of those who had/have no intention of delivering an exit

Even if we vote to leave for a second time - neither of the two parties will deliver - The elites just don't want it

 

[Pine Marten]

I'd rather see an election - but not between Labor and the Conservatives - neither can be trusted to deliver the people's choice

Fanciful I know, but I'd rather see two new parties emerging - one pro remaining and one pro leaving (really leaving) - that way who ever holds the reigns of power might be trusted to deliver

Yeah OK, I like it, let's do that. "Everyone who wants it to be 1951 again, go and stand there with Jacob, everyone who wants to stay in the EU, in that corner with Vince, everyone who doesn't actually care and just wants to serve their own interest, over there with Boris and Jeremy. "