Advice please. Springer bitch has become snarly when crammed in the beater's wagon

[Alantoo]

We had the old dog put down 18 months ago and the young one (6 years plus now) has started to growl and bare her teeth when we are crammed into the beater's wagon and there is any puppyish dog activity going on in front of her. She doesn't seem worried by the old labs or any of the other dogs when they are sitting or lying down...just the young ones and the cockers which are bouncing around.

I can't figure whether she has started being protective of her space or me, or "stay away from my bloke", or just frightened by whizzy dogs. Someone suggested another dog may have had a go at her when I wasn't looking.

I wondered whether the old dog's passing meant that she reckons she now should have our undivided attention. But it is so particular a circumstance in a confined space with other dogs approaching her.

As soon as we step outside the wagon all the dogs are just milling around and she is absolutely fine totally relaxed and just as she used to be...sniffing noses and bums and flirting with odd dog. Her nerviness just seems to be in the confines of the wagon.

I an going to get a muzzle just to make sure she doesn't bite, so far she has just snarled her lips and growled or yapped, but once she teeth butted with her jaws closed when one of then came too close.

She is on a course of Easotic for a recurring waxy ear which has been on and off since the old dog died...I did wonder whether the discomfort may be making her grumpy. When I take her in to the vets for an ear check up in a week or so I will ask if they can recommend an Animal Behavourist to sort her (or me if I am the problem) out.

Any thoughts anybody? Any similar experiences and or solutions?

Alan

 

[simonl]

I'd stop it asap before it becomes habit, with a "NO" plus a tap on the nose, or water pistol or anything the dog dislikes.

It's always easy to fix someone else's dog issues though...

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Sounds like she wants her space, and good for her! A friend of mine has a spaniel that's very similar, when there's lots of dogs or the dogs are trying to sniff her she growls and snarls, never went any further than that

 

[Alantoo]

I'd stop it asap before it becomes habit, with a "NO" plus a tap on the nose, or water pistol or anything the dog dislikes.

It's always easy to fix someone else's dog issues though...

Thank you for the thoughts

I have been holding her muzzle and saying "no", "knock it off" or "enough". I have been lifting her nose up so she can look at me and if I can get her eye contact it seems to help.

She is always under the bench seat with her nose pointing out between my calfs.

I have always used the Off sound as a sort of bark to get her off sofas or if she stands up and puts her paws on someone...reserving Down for when I want her to lie down.

I am wary of water pistol type punishments/distractions because I haven't been able to identify the cause...I don't want to punish her for being frightened, I thought that might make it worse.

It seems to be more reactive rather than aggressive. But maybe that is my rose tinted spectacle view.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

Sounds like she wants her space, and good for her! A friend of mine has a spaniel that's very similar, when there's lots of dogs or the dogs are trying to sniff her she growls and snarls, never went any further than that

The old dog used to just snap "bugger off" if a puppy kept irritating her. No attempt at contact but just put them in their place...but this is a bit more than that.

And it is a change to her previous relaxed behaviour. The water bowl is in front of me so the other dogs used to shuffle down the wagon to it and she just sat back and ignored them...now with some of them she gets wound up. I now tend to pass the bowl up the wagon to reduce the invasions of her space.

Alan

 

[howy308]

you do not train any dog by tapping them on the nose!

 

[8885]

Take a treat so she focus's on you and not the other dogs. Better than a punishment.

 

[reloader54]

Thank you for the thoughts

I have been holding her muzzle and saying "no", "knock it off" or "enough". I have been lifting her nose up so she can look at me and if I can get her eye contact it seems to help.

She is always under the bench seat with her nose pointing out between my calfs.

I have always used the Off sound as a sort of bark to get her off sofas or if she stands up and puts her paws on someone...reserving Down for when I want her to lie down.

I am wary of water pistol type punishments/distractions because I haven't been able to identify the cause...I don't want to punish her for being frightened, I thought that might make it worse.

It seems to be more reactive rather than aggressive. But maybe that is my rose tinted spectacle view.

Alan

sorry cant be more helpful in identifying the problem alan, however one thought,,, both dogs and women have but one thing in common,, they will do more for you if they love you than if they fear you. good luck.

 

[Alantoo]

you do not train any dog by tapping them on the nose!

Take a treat so she focus's on you and not the other dogs. Better than a punishment.

sorry cant be more helpful in identifying the problem alan, however one thought,,, both dogs and women have but one thing in common,, they will do more for you if they love you than if they fear you. good luck.

I had read John Bradshaw's In Defence of Dogs just before I acquired Poppy. It rang true to me, so she has been trained on the basis of his conclusion...that a domestic dog's prime motivators are to be a part of the family and have fun.

Up until this glitch I thought it was working out fine. She works well and is a brilliant retriever. She found two partridge runners that the picker uppers had missed last Saturday...smug? me? Well maybe a bit smug but mainly proud of her!

Alan

 

[John Gryphon]

you do not train any dog by tapping them on the nose!

Oh yes you can,its is how it is in the pack,they learn through their own mother over a bone,we are just an extension of that early leadership.
A tap commands authority and a tap is not a whip.

 

[howy308]

Oh yes you can,its is how it is in the pack,they learn through their own mother over a bone,we are just an extension of that early leadership.
A tap commands authority and a tap is not a whip.

I have trained my dogs all my life and never raised a hand to any and would not allow anyone in my company to do so. You can knock the devil in but you cannot knock the devil out, There is nothing worse than a dog that has been hit and you can usually tell sometimes they will cower and if not all you will do is install fear. Maybe that is how you do it in Australia.

 

[Alantoo]

One friend at the shoot asked if another dog has had a go a her...I couldn't think of one at the time but realised that shortly after the old dog was put down, she was bowled over by a couple of Dalmations that came full tilt across 200metres of field when my other-half was out with her.

So maybe there is a combination of other dogs approaching when she can't retreat, and also her being unused to having other dogs potentially taking my/our attention.

Hmmm.

At the moment I am just chauffeuring her around, but it is a bit of a pain having to walk back through to the start of each drive, instead of being picked up by the beater's wagon where we end!

Alan

 

[countrryboy]

I'd try wot others have said with a tasty treat (althou could do mor eharm than good as every other dog in wagon will crowd round mooching a treat too)

I take it this is her 1st season so 1st time in beating wagons?
Possibly try to get in wagon 1st and take dog right to far end and sit it down between ur legs under the seat, so ur protecting it, r facing u so can't see other dogs.
I'd try to persvre with it as if u don't it will never get any better and u'l have years of not travelling in the beaters wagon ad missing all the craic.

1 of the boys i used to shoot/train with (now a pro trainer/behaviourist) used to say something along the lines of " train it as a dog not a monkey"
Meaning dogs will never ever slap/strike another dog in the pack, so striking a dog is completely unfamilar to it, a 'pack leader' will however bite, shake, nip a lug or bowl over/stand over other dogs to teach a lesson/dominance so if u realy must get physical shakes, nip of lug etc are more suitable if u really must than striking

 

[Alantoo]

I'd try wot others have said with a tasty treat (althou could do mor eharm than good as every other dog in wagon will crowd round mooching a treat too)

I take it this is her 1st season so 1st time in beating wagons?
Possibly try to get in wagon 1st and take dog right to far end and sit it down between ur legs under the seat, so ur protecting it, r facing u so can't see other dogs.
snip...

The old dog always looked for a treat but the youngster isn't interested...especially on a working day.

No, she is now 7 and it is her fourth or fifth season beating and in the wagon. The first two or three were with the old dog as well.

Funnily enough I don't hang around after a drive and have always got back to the wagon first so invariably did sit in the back corner with the dogs under the bench with their heads between my calves. I did pick her up and put her on my lap to face her away from the other dogs at one stage and it seemed to help...but she is not a lap dog and it didn't work when I couldn't get to my normal spot in the back corner.

snip...
1 of the boys i used to shoot/train with (now a pro trainer/behaviourist) used to say something along the lines of " train it as a dog not a monkey"
Meaning dogs will never ever slap/strike another dog in the pack, so striking a dog is completely unfamilar to it, a 'pack leader' will however bite, shake, nip a lug or bowl over/stand over other dogs to teach a lesson/dominance so if u realy must get physical shakes, nip of lug etc are more suitable if u really must than striking

That is an interesting take on it. hmmm. Thanks.

Alan

 

[markthebuilder]

Hopefully you have one more day this season. sounds to me like the old dog gave her the sense of being protected/ had the key role of protecting you. now she is having to take care of herself/ you.. Show her you have her back. Have the confidence to push others dogs away rather than correct her. their owners should be keeping them between there legs any way. don't show any anxiety as other dogs approach she will pick up on it. reward every occasion she doesn't react. changeling position in the wagon may help.

 

[John Gryphon]

I have trained my dogs all my life and never raised a hand to any and would not allow anyone in my company to do so. You can knock the devil in but you cannot knock the devil out, There is nothing worse than a dog that has been hit and you can usually tell sometimes they will cower and if not all you will do is install fear. Maybe that is how you do it in Australia.[/QUOTE]

I just read your reply hence my tardiness.

So when one of your dogs as a pup in training decides to savage a slow old pregnant ewe in the field I have to ask " do you cuddle it or kiss it" ?

 

[howy308]

If it was introduced to sheep at the right age and in a proper manner it would not want to worry them .Where are you getting your dogs from, are they old strays off the streets?

 

[James0586]

My spin on this:

You may find that her ear infection is more painful when the young dogs are about because she has to move her head more frequently to get out of the way of them in the confides of the beaters trailer?

You don’t need to give a dog a slap to train it! A negative re enforcement can be achieved many different ways without laying hands on the dog!

Dog behaviourist are not always the answer. Have her ears checked fully first.

The issue may also be coming from you? Your aware of the issue that occurred so you may find that your tensing up or acting differently to how the dog usually sees you this then would kick in her flight or fight senses when these dogs are about.

(Dogs live in the now and don’t understand consequences).

The dalmations proberly haven’t helped the fact that they came bounding over and scared her.

Be careful giving the dog treats as your unaware of the dogs state of mind. You may start rewarding this negative behaviour and create a bigger issue.

Lots of things could cause these problems for you just monitor it for now and not make hasty decisions.

Time is a healer so the summer off may be a god send to her.

 

[Woodsmoke]

She's grumpy, and can't be bothered with other dogs. She's giving them the only warning she knows how to, so you need to be telling the other blokes to keep their dogs off her. Beaters wagons are a hotbed of bad etiquette in both people and dogs, in my not-so-humble opinion

 

[Apthorpe]

The sore ear could well be the cause. It's not exactly comparable, but my toddler daughter recently had an ear infection and i got.called into her nursery a couple of times because she'd been fighting. Turned out that whenever another kid was unnecessarily noisy, she punched them in the face because it hurt her ear. That was her excuse when i quizzed her later.
Perhaps your dog is the same? Or maybe they're both turning into aggressive little bitches.....