devonair
Well-Known Member
Lost mine a bit over a year ago now, she was 13 years old.
After speaking to a lot of shooting guys way more experienced than me I chose a lab x gsp bitch for ease of training and to slot into our family life (both of us doing shiftwork+3 young children) My first dog, she did everything asked of her with my basic training skills and her natural instincts.
Blood trailing, pigeon shooting, pheasant and even wildfowling on tidal water.
I learned more from her than she of me. Mostly she would stalk slightly ahead of me air scenting, when deer were spotted would drop behind with a finger click or slow handwave.
One morning out stalking, she focused ahead and gently leant on my leg quivering. I scanned the open ground and saw nothing thinking she had picked up a recent scent of deer. Must have been there a good while before two hidden fallow decided to break cover no more than 30 yrds away. One stopped and paid the price. I learned to trust her nose that day.
She made friends with everyone she met(no problem finding someone to look after her when away) never started trouble, excellent with well trained children, always had a naughty side especially where food was involved (usually our fault) There was the incident with a whole tray of disappearing defrosting meatballs, the disappearing tub of margarine, the swingbin lid escapade etc, etc, you get the idea. I let her retrieve the odd easy pheasant towards the end but mostly she slept for the last two years of her life.Hips and hearing went in the end.
I don't think you will regret it, I certainly dont
Make sure you keep us posted
After speaking to a lot of shooting guys way more experienced than me I chose a lab x gsp bitch for ease of training and to slot into our family life (both of us doing shiftwork+3 young children) My first dog, she did everything asked of her with my basic training skills and her natural instincts.
Blood trailing, pigeon shooting, pheasant and even wildfowling on tidal water.
I learned more from her than she of me. Mostly she would stalk slightly ahead of me air scenting, when deer were spotted would drop behind with a finger click or slow handwave.
One morning out stalking, she focused ahead and gently leant on my leg quivering. I scanned the open ground and saw nothing thinking she had picked up a recent scent of deer. Must have been there a good while before two hidden fallow decided to break cover no more than 30 yrds away. One stopped and paid the price. I learned to trust her nose that day.
She made friends with everyone she met(no problem finding someone to look after her when away) never started trouble, excellent with well trained children, always had a naughty side especially where food was involved (usually our fault) There was the incident with a whole tray of disappearing defrosting meatballs, the disappearing tub of margarine, the swingbin lid escapade etc, etc, you get the idea. I let her retrieve the odd easy pheasant towards the end but mostly she slept for the last two years of her life.Hips and hearing went in the end.
I don't think you will regret it, I certainly dont
Make sure you keep us posted
dan85
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the response! She sounded like a fantastic dog. I have found a few bits and bobs about their prowess as 'general purpose dogs' and they sound really impressive.
I'll definitely keep you posted!
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Can’t speak for lab x Gwp but can speak very highly of a lab x bmh. Ours is nearly 4, and she is part of the family. A bit more difficult than labs to train - quite headstrong and lots of drive, but very intelligent. She is not a peg dog, but loves stalking, wildfowling and general rough shooting. She loves people and friends toddlers will curl up with her. GWP like BMHs are strong minded, very loyal, but can be problematic if not properly trained/worked. The lab puts the ease of use into them.
I think double pedigrees are the way to go. Best of both breeds,hybrid vigour, they cost less and health insurance is half that of a purebred.
I think double pedigrees are the way to go. Best of both breeds,hybrid vigour, they cost less and health insurance is half that of a purebred.
I've got a Weirmariner /Lab cross, he's more of a family dog as where I shoot we didn't use our own dogs.
Would definitely recommend a lab crossed with this type of dog.
Steve.
Would definitely recommend a lab crossed with this type of dog.
Steve.
A popular cross with hill keepers.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Personally I wouldn't bother and stick with a straight lab, u have a far better idea wot u'll get.
I've. got a lab X wire cross and while he does the job he's nothing special either and doesn't do anything a lab wouldn't do.
I''d far rather have either a lab or wire over him
It is a complete lottery breeding or buying a puppy when pure bred and even more so breeding completely different types of dogs together,
Also would allow the genuinely decent dogs to cross breed them.
If ur bitch is decent most will always going to put it to a side of the same breed
Plus wot do udo if I have a great cross bred dog, wot/how do u breed it
Mongeral's can do a job but doubtful if ever come close to theparent breeds
I have a coulpe in my kennel now ( springerdor too) but I wouldn't buy 1 or choose to breed 1.
I've. got a lab X wire cross and while he does the job he's nothing special either and doesn't do anything a lab wouldn't do.
I''d far rather have either a lab or wire over him
It is a complete lottery breeding or buying a puppy when pure bred and even more so breeding completely different types of dogs together,
Also would allow the genuinely decent dogs to cross breed them.
If ur bitch is decent most will always going to put it to a side of the same breed
Plus wot do udo if I have a great cross bred dog, wot/how do u breed it
Mongeral's can do a job but doubtful if ever come close to theparent breeds
I have a coulpe in my kennel now ( springerdor too) but I wouldn't buy 1 or choose to breed 1.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
100% agree with countryboy.
Never had one but also not seen many that I would kennel (and there are a lot up here) compared to straight labs and GWPs and as he said, you are then stuck.
I can’t really see a situation where a cross would be significantly better than a straight bred of either but at the same time they will easily do the job if that’s what you fancy.
Never had one but also not seen many that I would kennel (and there are a lot up here) compared to straight labs and GWPs and as he said, you are then stuck.
I can’t really see a situation where a cross would be significantly better than a straight bred of either but at the same time they will easily do the job if that’s what you fancy.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Mine is a Pennine pointer - lab x GWP - great dog. Easy going around the family. Only use the dog on deer. Points, air scents, ground trails etc. Cross breeds can give you hybrid vigour, and less likely to have an issue with genetic problems that can afflict pure breeds. I would cross her with another Pennine. Oh and they are cheaper too then the pedigree mutts.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
I agree 100%. The problem with cross-breeding is that people imagine it is like mixing paint where you get an 'averaging' of the two breeds; whereas, in reality, it is more like shuffling two packs of cards together, chucking half of them away and then seeing what you have got left. The predictability of outcome for any given puppy is very poor and the variability within any litter is enormous. Some puppies will be copies of the dam; some just like the sire; and the rest a random combination of characteristics from each of the parents.
And this is where human optimism comes in (with pedigree dogs as well, but even more markedly so with mongrels). We assume that if we take two great dogs or breeds and cross them, the puppies will carry all of the great characteristics from each of the two dogs in order to produce a super-dog. This is unlikely. They are just as likely to take all of the terrible characteristics from each breed and combine them into a super-crap-dog; or - most likely of all - take some random combination of good and bad and shuffle them together to make an (unpredictably) average dog.
Breeding pedigree dogs (for performance; forget looks) is hard enough. To try and do it with crosses just makes it even harder.
Finally, there is a saying in the horse-racing world that 'champions rarely breed champions'. I think it is the same with dogs: most of the time we are just guessing as to what we are going to get.
Kind regards,
Carl
norma 308
Well-Known Member
i have a lab bitch i rehomed at 15 months at 6 she is a good all rounder and stalk weekly with her as well as most other keepers jobs ,i wouldnt say no to a x breed but consider what has been said above its your personal taste sometimes one has just a feel about these things im a lab man simple
norma
norma
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more
His nose is great mate, I've not had any runners on deer( yet) but he can find anything else , he is also very very determined and intelligent
Kafka
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
A very well written post from Carl, and the card shuffling ability is a good 1.
He so right about the horse/champion thing too, never heard that before.
But u do see it in a lot of well bred FT dogs often no where near the expectations.
Hybrid vigor only really applies to 1st gen crosses, there is research out there showing that often 2nd gen crosses have poorer health and shorter life spans.
I'm sure in a recent thread in the vet's section a vet was commenting on Montreal dogs having a genetic disease from a parent bred.
In the old days when Maff still had power they would come onto farms and sieze anything they thought was a cross bred bull..
U won't find any farmers using a cross bred male on there stock.
Breeding stock and dogs isn't that different.
Usually in these sort of threads u get the all breeds came from wolfs and were allmongerals at 1 point. Which is true
But the old breeders used to be ruthless, any pups/dogs which looked to have the bad traits even the wrong colour/size/shape would be PTS there and then.
1 off my biggest worries about actually wanting a cross would be the standard of the dogs being mated.
I'd imagine anyone training a bitch to a decent standard would want a pure bred pup to try to improve on her,, not take as complete lucky dip marring.
While accidents will happen and produce some very decent dogs not sure I'd search for 1
He so right about the horse/champion thing too, never heard that before.
But u do see it in a lot of well bred FT dogs often no where near the expectations.
Hybrid vigor only really applies to 1st gen crosses, there is research out there showing that often 2nd gen crosses have poorer health and shorter life spans.
I'm sure in a recent thread in the vet's section a vet was commenting on Montreal dogs having a genetic disease from a parent bred.
In the old days when Maff still had power they would come onto farms and sieze anything they thought was a cross bred bull..
U won't find any farmers using a cross bred male on there stock.
Breeding stock and dogs isn't that different.
Usually in these sort of threads u get the all breeds came from wolfs and were allmongerals at 1 point. Which is true
But the old breeders used to be ruthless, any pups/dogs which looked to have the bad traits even the wrong colour/size/shape would be PTS there and then.
1 off my biggest worries about actually wanting a cross would be the standard of the dogs being mated.
I'd imagine anyone training a bitch to a decent standard would want a pure bred pup to try to improve on her,, not take as complete lucky dip marring.
While accidents will happen and produce some very decent dogs not sure I'd search for 1
Very true, my Mack is ........
The dam is a true GWP and the sire a true BL . from true working backgrounds
He's mint ,
Is this a blaser /h n h thread ,
Ask Hendrix rifle , n super sport what, my x breed can do
Our dogs , our r dogs
Dogs. Are dogs
Kjf
Kjf
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countrryboy
Well-Known Member
KJF , no one is saying mongrals won't make great working dogs just it is a far bigger gamble than picking a pup of a pure lines, which is a gamble anyway
Do u know how any of it dogs litter mates turned out
If u got the pup with the better mix of genes there is a good chance another off the pups got the poorer genes.
I know the 1st lab X wire dogs I ever seen was on a grouse moor up north mibee's 10 years ago, possibly more.
A whole litter was shared out amount the keepers, most ill natured aggressive dogs I've ever seen, the whole lot off them. I used to have to pin the worst 1 down with my foot to get my dogs into the haaglund without being bitten. At lunchtimes they'd fight with themselves if no other dogs about. Never seen dogs do that before or since
The whole litter would off been better 'balanced'.
I know my mongeral lab/wire has a pretty hard mouth, although better than it was when I got him ( had to encourage him with treats to spit game at my feet, opposite of wot u want)
He has a great nose and finds a lot of game, loves water and great swimmer but is a pain to handle/train,, so like a wire without actually pointing
Seen many good working mongerals no doubt they can do a job but I'd never go actually looking for 1.
I've got a cracking springerdor the now but I'd still never choose 1 over either a lab or a Springer.
KJF I'd wager if u put the same time and effort into a lab I'd also end up with an excellent dog too. But u can then breed from it and with a little bit of homework/good luck produce a pup thats even better.
Do u know how any of it dogs litter mates turned out
If u got the pup with the better mix of genes there is a good chance another off the pups got the poorer genes.
I know the 1st lab X wire dogs I ever seen was on a grouse moor up north mibee's 10 years ago, possibly more.
A whole litter was shared out amount the keepers, most ill natured aggressive dogs I've ever seen, the whole lot off them. I used to have to pin the worst 1 down with my foot to get my dogs into the haaglund without being bitten. At lunchtimes they'd fight with themselves if no other dogs about. Never seen dogs do that before or since
The whole litter would off been better 'balanced'.
I know my mongeral lab/wire has a pretty hard mouth, although better than it was when I got him ( had to encourage him with treats to spit game at my feet, opposite of wot u want)
He has a great nose and finds a lot of game, loves water and great swimmer but is a pain to handle/train,, so like a wire without actually pointing
Seen many good working mongerals no doubt they can do a job but I'd never go actually looking for 1.
I've got a cracking springerdor the now but I'd still never choose 1 over either a lab or a Springer.
KJF I'd wager if u put the same time and effort into a lab I'd also end up with an excellent dog too. But u can then breed from it and with a little bit of homework/good luck produce a pup thats even better.
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