Wild justice challenge against releasing non native game birds

[Mick9abf]

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

This is something I intend to take advantage of and urge anyone with a constructive idea or strategy to do the same. I think any forum members doing so should keep it on this subject as opposed to other ‘issues’ they have with the organisation in the meantime.

I’m sure Dr O’Gorman and his colleagues realise there is a lot of discontent amongst members and the shooting community over the way this (and other issues), have been handled; perhaps going forward with some fresh ideas something positive can come of this.

 

[kes]

Sorry Connor, I am not a BASC member, just passionate about shooting and the quality of representation for all shooters.

If I were a BASC member, I would say that your job title needs to change as its based on the assumption that BASC has no real opposition to shooting. Its just media relations based.
You need to plan for the development of a portfolio of independent studies, e.g. The songbird trust - check RSPB stats and see how many cat owners are members. Morrland habitat needs to be researched to prove beyond the least shadow of a doubt that keepered moors are much more productive of waders than unkeepered. You need to find the studies which recommended predator control for species protection - hedgehogs and stoats and rats and so forth.
So I would suggest your job title should be Conservation Programme Research and Media Relations Manager. Put the stress and the money where it really needs to be whllst there is some time left.
Find someone with Gravitas and recruit them for debates and fronting the study results when you get them, because they ALL need to be published and shootings response given separately.
Getting to a debate is hard - cocking it up by sloppy preparation or poor delivery is easy. Its a fool who prevents others giving their opinions as long as it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, twice over that they are deceitful and misrepresent the truth then call them extremists. We know they are but we have to SHOW they are.

Of course you dont have to listen to non-members but I would also ask non-members because they could become members if you get it right - just once or twice.

 

[Mickeydredd]

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor
WJ’s attacks on shooting are being fuelled and driven via a high profile “celebrity” and their slanted views and misinformation reaches a huge audience, many of whom are not even particularly anti until they hear his views.
What shooting needs is a similar high profile celebrity through whom we can deliver facts surrounding our sport to a wide, non-shooting community. Botham perhaps?? BASC, CA, GWCT, etc need to pull together and provide Botham or whoever with the ammunition to deliver the message on all media, but especially on the BBC.
Packham will slip up eventually, and hopefully it will be on the missing tagged raptors, and when he does then the shooting side media train needs to hit overdrive to discredit him completely to finish him as a believable and trustworthy “expert”.
Rgds
Mike
BASC member

 

[ndt man]

Sorry Connor, I am not a BASC member, just passionate about shooting and the quality of representation for all shooters.

If I were a BASC member, I would say that your job title needs to change as its based on the assumption that BASC has no real opposition to shooting. Its just media relations based.
You need to plan for the development of a portfolio of independent studies, e.g. The songbird trust - check RSPB stats and see how many cat owners are members. Morrland habitat needs to be researched to prove beyond the least shadow of a doubt that keepered moors are much more productive of waders than unkeepered. You need to find the studies which recommended predator control for species protection - hedgehogs and stoats and rats and so forth.
So I would suggest your job title should be Conservation Programme Research and Media Relations Manager. Put the stress and the money where it really needs to be whllst there is some time left.
Find someone with Gravitas and recruit them for debates and fronting the study results when you get them, because they ALL need to be published and shootings response given separately.
Getting to a debate is hard - cocking it up by sloppy preparation or poor delivery is easy. Its a fool who prevents others giving their opinions as long as it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, twice over that they are deceitful and misrepresent the truth then call them extremists. We know they are but we have to SHOW they are.

Of course you dont have to listen to non-members but I would also ask non-members because they could become members if you get it right - just once or twice.

Well done

 

[Mick9abf]

Conor
WJ’s attacks on shooting are being fuelled and driven via a high profile “celebrity” and their slanted views and misinformation reaches a huge audience, many of whom are not even particularly anti until they hear his views.
What shooting needs is a similar high profile celebrity through whom we can deliver facts surrounding our sport to a wide, non-shooting community. Botham perhaps?? BASC, CA, GWCT, etc need to pull together and provide Botham or whoever with the ammunition to deliver the message on all media, but especially on the BBC.
Packham will slip up eventually, and hopefully it will be on the missing tagged raptors, and when he does then the shooting side media train needs to hit overdrive to discredit him completely to finish him as a believable and trustworthy “expert”.
Rgds
Mike
BASC member

A celebrity or tv presenter who appeals to the younger generation is exactly what we need, unfortunately if you mentioned Ian Botham to most folk <30 they would be asking “who”, but absolutely and something I was going to suggest.

 

[countrryboy]

1 slight problem u have with celebs standing up for shooting.
It could very well be carear suicide, not right or fair but that seems to be the way of things now with nternet etc.

Look wot happened to David Bellamy a nature presenter who only spoke up for shooting, and that was n the past in a more polite and civilised time.

Plenty off internet trolls would send death threats, ironic don't want to kill animals but happy to threaten to kill a person. Sad but mental.

 

[Greenmist]

A celebrity or tv presenter who appeals to the younger generation is exactly what we need, unfortunately if you mentioned Ian Botham to most folk <30 they would be asking “who”, but absolutely and something I was going to suggest.

I have to agree, and sadly I doubt any celebrity would take the stand for fear of the backlash.

 

[Jagare]

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

I read the above and the sad smile is back on my face. The Members have been telling you what they want to happen. Do you not understand what they are saying? They want action from BASC.
Its amazing in this day and age that BASC aren't savvy with the ways of social media and playing CP at his own game.
when i worked in the concrete repair game the company employed a west Indian foreman who once said " that ghosts know who to frighten" How true that is.
A man who seems to be much more social media savvy than BASC wants to interveiw CP but its stopped by your lot. The best thing you could do is bring him into your media team as a consultant. He seems to be, a ghost who knows how to frighten.
I was a member of BASC from the mid 60's till i moved here in 2003. No point in being a member now as BASC are irrelevant here. Soon they will be as irrelevant in the UK if you don't pull your heads out of your collective arses.
I'm glad we have 2 good shooting orgs here that fight the corner of there member.

 

[DuncanR]

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Connor, I don’t understand why you have only asked BASC members to contact you. There are far more non members than members. All of us have ideas and relevant feedback that BASC could use.

As “the voice of shooting” I would suggest that you should be talking to all shooters in all disciplines of our sport and not just “the members”. If you want to use the title and be the representative (voice)of all shooters then I would suggest you need, as an organisation, to take the responsibility that goes with the title.

Just to clarify things a little, I am a BASC member and am starting to regret it and even feel uncomfortable with the very dubious status!

In short, talk to everyone and to try to get a better understanding and more ideas and then get up and do something about it(organisationally) now and with some aggression! Please???

Duncan

 

[CarlW]

Connor, I don’t understand why you have only asked BASC members to contact you. There are far more non members than members. All of us have ideas and relevant feedback that BASC could use.

As “the voice of shooting” I would suggest that you should be talking to all shooters in all disciplines of our sport and not just “the members”. If you want to use the title and be the representative (voice)of all shooters then I would suggest you need, as an organisation, to take the responsibility that goes with the title.

Just to clarify things a little, I am a BASC member and am starting to regret it and even feel uncomfortable with the very dubious status!

In short, talk to everyone and to try to get a better understanding and more ideas and then get up and do something about it(organisationally) now and with some aggression! Please???

Duncan

I think Duncan's request for "aggression" is key here, @Conor O'Gorman . We members, and former members, and potential members will no longer accept BASC's strategy of gentle appeasement. It is time to put your boots on and start swinging. Use the courts, use the press, use social media. Go on the offensive. Fight! For God's sake, fight! We will thow ourselves behind you like nothing you've ever seen.

 

[kes]

For an organisation which has people asking for something so they CAN join, has to be positive but you will reap the whirlwind if BASC does not do something exceptional in the immediate future.
If you are head of 'POLICY Connor then change policy to what has been suggested above.

BASC failed to condemn Swift - ?
BASC failed to appoint a CEO who was any good the last time - ALI How much did that cost.
BASC's Chairman was bent ( personnel report commissioning)
BASC is arrogant and often offensive in presuming it knows best, always, it doesnt (Greylag Geese, early warnings of Swift's turncoat intentions) - shooters will tell you what is best - listen and decide (ballot actual Members if you need to) but the pool of intelligent advice with years of experience lies open to you, if you ask.
BASC's fall-back; Politicians - fell over. Trusting anyone at the moment is a risk but common sense should prevail and having at least 2 strings and a couple of hammers to your bow is just responsible.
BASC failed to publish legal advice against JR over medicals in either Scotland or England - Chief Constables are not GODS they are a public service provider and the stress has to be on the PUBLIC, or a political backlash will remove them. Any publishing of that advice now is almost pointless, except to confirm it was taken - many (me specifically) cannot believe any legal advice that didnt weigh the £48 Million (costs) against the potential success by once bringing the Police to heel under existing law.
BASC failed to read the potential of discussions over licences/medicals and if you were terrified of Chief Cons as appears then more scenarios should have been run past a sceptical management team first.
BASC's recent record is poor to pathetic (see above and more I could mention) - make sure this record of failure ends now and I and many others would be supporters - there's nothing to support at present, if the condition (bad record, excuses) is terminal then do the decent thing and amalgamate with CA, SACS, NGO, rather than face the ignominy of having to, as membership disappears.

I am heartily sick of saying stuff like this.

 

[parkyboy]

I think Duncan's request for "aggression" is key here, @Conor O'Gorman . We members, and former members, and potential members will no longer accept BASC's strategy of gentle appeasement. It is time to put your boots on and start swinging. Use the courts, use the press, use social media. Go on the offensive. Fight! For God's sake, fight! We will thow ourselves behind you like nothing you've ever seen.

well said my friend...they are the "voice of shooting" so i humbley suggest that they START F###ING SHOUTING.....

 

[finnbear270]

well said my friend...they are the "voice of shooting" so i humbley suggest that they START F###ING SHOUTING.....

Been a voice in the wilderness for a good few years on this one.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Having received no suggestions by PM from Stalking Directory members, and considering suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from Stalking Directory members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Pigeon Watch.

 

[Tim.243]

Having received no suggestions by PM from Stalking Directory members, and considering suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from Stalking Directory members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Pigeon Watch.

If Zapp(cock) lets it run on PW that will be fun....



Tim.243

 

[Mickeydredd]

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread - how does that sound?

Conor

Would it perhaps be prudent to start with the more pressing issue highlighted in this thread rather than the subject you suggest?

Alternatively, why not start a separate thread on each topic of interest. Perhaps Admin might even set up a BASC section in which to capture them.

Rgds
Mike

 

[CarlW]

Having received no suggestions by PM from Stalking Directory members, and considering suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from Stalking Directory members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Pigeon Watch.

Good plan, Conor.
Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Greenmist]

I think Duncan's request for "aggression" is key here, @Conor O'Gorman . We members, and former members, and potential members will no longer accept BASC's strategy of gentle appeasement. It is time to put your boots on and start swinging. Use the courts, use the press, use social media. Go on the offensive. Fight! For God's sake, fight! We will thow ourselves behind you like nothing you've ever seen.

I think BASC are to careful not to upset anyone (except their members), I have have said a few times that they have become the career politicians of the shooting world, now I fear they are more like the lib-dems, waiting to see what happens before commiting themselves

 

[Greenmist]

Having received no suggestions by PM from Stalking Directory members, and considering suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from Stalking Directory members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Pigeon Watch.

Hire proactive people who know what social media is

 

[kes]

Ok chaps - lets see if this proposal is genuine. Let Connor post his thread and let us openly contribute some positive advice. What he does with it is up to him but the least he could do is reply what he has done with the advice and show us the paper which results on 'Policy Formulation' or whatever title he chooses to send to Council.
I'm quite keen to propose a few changes.