Has Boris shot himself in the foot.

[bowji john]

It looks like the remainers have won this round

The Lords have run scared and will allow the bill to pass

We will certainly end up with 'No Deal' being banned for the time being

However an election is a certainty

If the cons (now sans remainers) run on a simple ticket of revoking the anti no-deal bill and going for a clear no deal exit then a deal can be done with the Brexit party and there is a simple fight for the soul of this country

However no matter who wins that battle, Brexit has revealed fundamental disagreements in core values in this country

If the leavers win (a result I fervently wish for) the remainers will never forgive any resulting loss of jobs or prosperity - no matter how short lived the effect - it will still have a profound affect on some

If the remainers win, it will be at the cost of any trust and respect for Parliament, democracy and the political system - that might not matter of course as we will have handed our soul to our new masters - Parliament and our political & legal system will quickly become irrelevant.

I am convinced that

1 . There is no sensible deal available - (you can stick May's deal and a Norway style deal where the sun don't shine)
2. There is (and always was) a simple choice of a clean break or remaining
3. If we remain it will not be as the second most powerful member - it will be as a whipped dog bending its knee to a triumphant totalitarian system

Either way - life here has been changed for ever

The two sides will continue to loath each other - there will be no coming together over such a fundamental issue

 

[Apthorpe]

I do accept it as the hard fact that the UK government is doing / has done very little to support our fishermen within the rules laid down by the EU in the last decade +

4%?? did you read that. Only 4% of the UK fishing quota is being fished by our small UK fleet

Why is that being allowed by our government?

Rstrict the UK fishing quota to UK boats from UK ports using UK processing plants all well within EU rules and they could have made our fleet very happy indeed.

Nahhhhh just blame it all on the nasty EU instead its cheaper and easier

I don't believe I'm reading this, even from you.

"Why is that being allowed by our government?"

Answer: Um, because we're in the EU and under EU law fisheries are under EU control. It's the CFP! The UK government has literally no control over the rules. You cannot restrict UK quota to UK boats from UK ports. It's a single market and it is illegal to discriminate in that way. All EU companies and citizens have equal access. That would be very obviously completely illegal under EU law.

 

[tackb]

I don't believe I'm reading this, even from you.

"Why is that being allowed by our government?"

Answer: Um, because we're in the EU and under EU law fisheries are under EU control. It's the CFP! The UK government has literally no control over the rules. You cannot restrict UK quota to UK boats from UK ports. It's a single market and it is illegal to discriminate in that way. All EU companies and citizens have equal access. That would be very obviously completely illegal under EU law.

i'm a thickie and even I can see that !

chaseys utopian dream doesn't hold water and has been leaking for decades , not that he will admit it

 

[enfieldspares]

;In March 2015 further news emerged of illegal fishing in British waters.

So because someone does something unlawful and abuses that which is lawful then what should we do? Ban that lawful activity? So let's do that with guns, and shooting, and driven grouse, and etc., etc..

You cannot restrict UK quota to UK boats from UK ports.

I am assuming that these are the quotas that British boat owners sold off to take a quick profit to foreign buyers? Many of them to Spanish fishing operations? Or the near 30% of UK quota rights and 80% of English water quota rights held and controlled by says one report just five families? As it has been put having sold off the family silver the vendors are now complaining about the fact years later. I don't believe everything I read in the media but here's the link anyway:

Revealed: the millionaires hoarding UK fishing rights

A painstaking five-month long investigation shows that a small group of wealthy families control huge swathes of the country’s fishing quota

unearthed.greenpeace.org

 

[reloader54]

I do accept it as the hard fact that the UK government is doing / has done very little to support our fishermen within the rules laid down by the EU in the last decade +

4%?? did you read that. Only 4% of the UK fishing quota is being fished by our small UK fleet

Why is that being allowed by our government?

Rstrict the UK fishing quota to UK boats from UK ports using UK processing plants all well within EU rules and they could have made our fleet very happy indeed.

Nahhhhh just blame it all on the nasty EU instead its cheaper and easier

macron has already said after brexit french fishermen will fish british waters,

I do accept it as the hard fact that the UK government is doing / has done very little to support our fishermen within the rules laid down by the EU in the last decade +

4%?? did you read that. Only 4% of the UK fishing quota is being fished by our small UK fleet

Why is that being allowed by our government?

Rstrict the UK fishing quota to UK boats from UK ports using UK processing plants all well within EU rules and they could have made our fleet very happy indeed.

Nahhhhh just blame it all on the nasty EU instead its cheaper and easier

as always just focus on one thing and ignore anything that shows your beloved eu in anything other that sheer perfection,

 

[Hornet 6]

Come on! Chasey's brave enough to keep posting his gibberish political opinions on here, he hardly deserves to be pelted with wet fish in public too!

Maybe not in your book, but plenty here would pay for the fish being thrown

Neil.

PS: Why do the built in smilies from a Mac not work on here anymore, work on every other platform I have ever come across ?

 

[JAYB]

I shall be really glad when this is all over, do you realise how much time it takes to read through these threads. I suppose the resolution of the current shall inexorably lead straight into the next domestic crisis, I can't wait , deep joy.

John

 

[Hornet 6]

I shall be really glad when this is all over, do you realise how much time it takes to read through these threads. I suppose the resolution of the current shall inexorably lead straight into the next domestic crisis, I can't wait , deep joy.

John

When this is all over one of two thing will have happened.
Either, we will have our country back under home rule
or we will have lost everything and we will all be governed by an unelected remote dictator, that we will never have any control over.

I hope its the first, but at my age (and health) the second option thankfully wont last long.

Neil.

 

[Apthorpe]

So because someone does something unlawful and abuses that which is lawful then what should we do? Ban that lawful activity? So let's do that with guns, and shooting, and driven grouse, and etc., etc..



I am assuming that these are the quotas that British boat owners sold off to take a quick profit to foreign buyers? Many of them to Spanish fishing operations? Or the near 30% of UK quota rights and 80% of English water quota rights held and controlled by says one report just five families? As it has been put having sold off the family silver the vendors are now complaining about the fact years later. I don't believe everything I read in the media but here's the link anyway:

Revealed: the millionaires hoarding UK fishing rights

A painstaking five-month long investigation shows that a small group of wealthy families control huge swathes of the country’s fishing quota

unearthed.greenpeace.org

When you look at in terms of selling off the family silver, the question arises as to who it is who has actually sold the family silver. The answer is Heath. The system of quotas is foreign anyway, and the behaviour of British holders of quotas is a consequence of the rigged playing field they operate on. By "rigged" I mean that foreign operators were operating with advantages including cheaper cost of capital, state aid, lack of regulation and so on.

 

[tackb]

apthorpe , fancy running for PM?

 

[VSS]

I wonder how many people on this site have first-hand current experience of the UK fishing industry, and could comment without just copying and pasting propoganda to suit? (My question applies to both sides of the argument).
I'm a bit out of touch with it these days. Chasey’s information is undoubtedly more up-to-date than my own. But at one time I did own a registered MFV and held a commercial fishing licence. Unfortunately I had to sell all that just to keep my farm going during the 2001 foot & mouth outbreak, so I can't comment first-hand on the current state of the industry. Can anyone on here?

 

[Apthorpe]

I wonder how many people on this site have first-hand current experience of the UK fishing industry, and could comment without just copying and pasting propoganda to suit? (My question applies to both sides of the argument).
I'm a bit out of touch with it these days. Chasey’s information is undoubtedly more up-to-date than my own. But at one time I did own a registered MFV and held a commercial fishing licence. Unfortunately I had to sell all that just to keep my farm going during the 2001 foot & mouth outbreak, so I can't comment first-hand on the current state of the industry. Can anyone on here?

That's a good question, but I fear we're going to be disappointed since, according to Chasey's figures, just under 120% of UK fishermen are foreign nationals. I suppose it's possible some of them may also be members on here. I have my doubts about the accuracy of much of Chasey's information.

 

[sh1kar]

Back to original point. Good article here

Corbyn, not Boris, was the real loser on Tuesday | The Spectator

The Remainers are celebrating after Tuesday night's defeat of the government and writing Boris off as a busted flush. ‘Johnson’s Brexit strategy in ruins as anti-no deal MPs inflict defeat,’ says the headline on this morning’s FT. But I’m not convinced this was such a bad night for the Prime...

blogs.spectator.co.uk

S

 

[deeangeo]

Reproduced from elsewhere.

I’ll just leave this here ...
The Scheming back stabbing MP's who went against the Country just remember this when You vote next time.

A-Z by last name

Diane Abbott Labour
Debbie Abrahams Labour
Rushanara Ali Labour
Heidi Allen Independent
Rosena Allin-Khan Labour
Mike Amesbury Labour
Tonia Antoniazzi Labour
Jon Ashworth Labour/Co-operative
Adrian Bailey Labour/Co-operative
Hannah Bardell Scottish National Party
Guto Bebb Conservative
Margaret Beckett Labour
Hilary Benn Labour
Richard Benyon Conservative
Luciana Berger Independent
Clive Betts Labour
Mhairi Black Scottish National Party
Ian Blackford Scottish National Party
Kirsty Blackman Scottish National Party
Roberta Blackman-Woods Labour
Paul Blomfield Labour
Nicholas Boles Independent
Tracy Brabin Labour/Co-operative
Ben Bradshaw Labour
Tom Brake Liberal Democrat
Kevin Brennan Labour
Steve Brine Conservative
Deidre Brock Scottish National Party
Lyn Brown Labour
Nick Brown Labour
Alan Brown Scottish National Party
Chris Bryant Labour
Karen Buck Labour
Richard Burden Labour
Richard Burgon Labour
Alistair Burt Conservative
Dawn Butler Labour
Liam Byrne Labour
Vincent Cable Liberal Democrat
Ruth Cadbury Labour
Lisa Cameron Scottish National Party
Alan Campbell Labour
Ronnie Campbell Labour
Dan Carden Labour
Alistair Carmichael Liberal Democrat
Sarah Champion Labour
Douglas Chapman Scottish National Party
Jenny Chapman Labour
Bambos Charalambous Labour
Joanna Cherry Scottish National Party
Greg Clark Conservative
Kenneth Clarke Conservative
Ann Clwyd Labour
Vernon Coaker Labour
Ann Coffey Independent
Julie Cooper Labour
Rosie Cooper Labour
Yvette Cooper Labour
Jeremy Corbyn Labour
Ronnie Cowan Scottish National Party
Neil Coyle Labour
David Crausby Labour
Angela Crawley Scottish National Party
Mary Creagh Labour
Stella Creasy Labour/Co-operative
Jon Cruddas Labour
John Cryer Labour
Judith Cummins Labour
Alex Cunningham Labour
Jim Cunningham Labour
Janet Daby Labour
Nicholas Dakin Labour
Edward Davey Liberal Democrat
Wayne David Labour
Geraint Davies Labour/Co-operative
Martyn Day Scottish National Party
Marsha de Cordova Labour
Gloria De Piero Labour
Thangam Debbonaire Labour
Emma Dent Coad Labour
Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi Labour
Martin Docherty Scottish National Party
Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat
Anneliese Dodds Labour/Co-operative
Stephen Doughty Labour/Co-operative
Peter Dowd Labour
David Drew Labour/Co-operative
Jack Dromey Labour
Rosie Duffield Labour
Angela Eagle Labour
Maria Eagle Labour
Jonathan Edwards Plaid Cymru
Clive Efford Labour
Julie Elliott Labour
Louise Ellman Labour/Co-operative
Bill Esterson Labour
Chris Evans Labour/Co-operative
Paul Farrelly Labour
Tim Farron Liberal Democrat
Marion Fellows Scottish National Party
Frank Field Independent
Jim Fitzpatrick Labour
Colleen Fletcher Labour
Caroline Flint Labour
Lisa Forbes Labour
Yvonne Fovargue Labour
Vicky Foxcroft Labour
James Frith Labour
Gill Furniss Labour
Hugh Gaffney Labour
Mike Gapes Independent
Barry Gardiner Labour
David Gauke Conservative
Ruth George Labour
Patricia Gibson Scottish National Party
Preet Kaur Gill Labour/Co-operative
Mary Glindon Labour
Roger Godsiff Labour
Helen Goodman Labour
Patrick Grady Scottish National Party
Peter Grant Scottish National Party
Neil Gray Scottish National Party
Kate Green Labour
Justine Greening Conservative
Lilian Greenwood Labour
Margaret Greenwood Labour
Dominic Grieve Conservative
Nia Griffith Labour
John Grogan Labour
Andrew Gwynne Labour
Sam Gyimah Conservative
Louise Haigh Labour
Fabian Hamilton Labour
Stephen Hammond Conservative
Philip Hammond Conservative
David Hanson Labour
Emma Hardy Labour
Harriet Harman Labour
Richard Harrington Conservative
Carolyn Harris Labour
Helen Hayes Labour
Sue Hayman Labour
John Healey Labour
Mark Hendrick Labour/Co-operative
Drew Hendry Scottish National Party
Stephen Hepburn Labour
Sylvia Hermon Independent
Mike Hill Labour
Meg Hillier Labour/Co-operative
Wera Hobhouse Liberal Democrat
Margaret Hodge Labour
Sharon Hodgson Labour
Kate Hollern Labour
Stewart Hosie Scottish National Party
George Howarth Labour
Rupa Huq Labour
Imran Hussain Labour
Margot James Conservative
Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat
Dan Jarvis Labour
Diana R. Johnson Labour
Sarah Jones Labour
Graham Jones Labour
Susan Elan Jones Labour
Gerald Jones Labour
Helen Jones Labour
Ruth Jones Labour
Darren Jones Labour
Kevan Jones Labour
Mike Kane Labour
Barbara Keeley Labour
Liz Kendall Labour
Afzal Khan Labour
Ged Killen Labour/Co-operative
Stephen Kinnock Labour
Peter Kyle Labour
Lesley Laird Labour
Ben Lake Plaid Cymru
Norman Lamb Liberal Democrat
David Lammy Labour
Ian Lavery Labour
Chris Law Scottish National Party
Phillip Lee Conservative
Karen Lee Labour
Chris Leslie Independent
Oliver Letwin Conservative
Emma Lewell-Buck Labour
Clive Lewis Labour
David Linden Scottish National Party
Stephen Lloyd Independent
Tony Lloyd Labour
Rebecca Long-Bailey Labour
Caroline Lucas Green
Ian Lucas Labour
Holly Lynch Labour
Angus MacNeil Scottish National Party
Justin Madders Labour
Khalid Mahmood Labour
Shabana Mahmood Labour
Seema Malhotra Labour/Co-operative
Gordon Marsden Labour
Sandy Martin Labour
Rachael Maskell Labour/Co-operative
Chris Matheson Labour
Steve McCabe Labour
Kerry McCarthy Labour
Siobhain McDonagh Labour
Stewart McDonald Scottish National Party
Stuart McDonald Scottish National Party
Andy McDonald Labour
John Martin McDonnell Labour
Pat McFadden Labour
Conor McGinn Labour
Alison McGovern Labour
Liz McInnes Labour
Catherine McKinnell Labour
Jim McMahon Labour/Co-operative
Anna McMorrin Labour
John McNally Scottish National Party
Ian Mearns Labour
Ed Miliband Labour
Anne Milton Conservative
Carol Monaghan Scottish National Party
Madeleine Moon Labour
Layla Moran Liberal Democrat
Jessica Morden Labour
Stephen Morgan Labour
Grahame Morris Labour
Ian Murray Labour
Lisa Nandy Labour
Gavin Newlands Scottish National Party
Caroline Nokes Conservative
Alex Norris Labour/Co-operative
Brendan O'Hara Scottish National Party
Melanie Onn Labour
Chi Onwurah Labour
Kate Osamor Labour/Co-operative
Albert Owen Labour
Stephanie Peacock Labour
Teresa Pearce Labour
Matthew Pennycook Labour
Toby Perkins Labour
Jess Phillips Labour
Bridget Phillipson Labour
Laura Pidcock Labour
Jo Platt Labour/Co-operative
Luke Pollard Labour/Co-operative
Steve Pound Labour
Lucy Powell Labour/Co-operative
Yasmin Qureshi Labour
Faisal Rashid Labour
Angela Rayner Labour
Steve Reed Labour/Co-operative
Christina Rees Labour/Co-operative
Rachel Reeves Labour
Ellie Reeves Labour
Jonathan Reynolds Labour/Co-operative
Emma Reynolds Labour (proxy vote cast by Pat McFadden)
Marie Rimmer Labour
Geoffrey Robinson Labour
Matt Rodda Labour
Danielle Rowley Labour
Chris Ruane Labour
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Labour/Co-operative
Joan Ryan Independent
Antoinette Sandbach Conservative
Liz Saville-Roberts Plaid Cymru
Naseem Shah Labour
Virendra Sharma Labour
Barry Sheerman Labour/Co-operative
Tommy Sheppard Scottish National Party
Paula Sherriff Labour
Gavin Shuker Independent
Tulip Siddiq Labour
Dennis Skinner Labour
Andrew Slaughter Labour
Ruth Smeeth Labour
Jeff Smith Labour
Eleanor Smith Labour
Laura Smith Labour
Angela Smith Independent
Owen Smith Labour
Cat Smith Labour
Nick Smith Labour
Karin Smyth Labour
Gareth Snell Labour/Co-operative
Nicholas Soames Conservative
Alex Sobel Labour/Co-operative
Anna Soubry Independent
John Spellar Labour
Keir Starmer Labour
Chris Stephens Scottish National Party
Jo Stevens Labour
Rory Stewart Conservative
Jamie Stone Liberal Democrat
Wes Streeting Labour
Graham Stringer Labour
Paul Sweeney Labour
Jo Swinson Liberal Democrat
Mark Tami Labour
Alison Thewliss Scottish National Party
Gareth Thomas Labour/Co-operative
Nick Thomas-Symonds Labour
Emily Thornberry Labour
Stephen Timms Labour
Jon Trickett Labour
Anna Turley Labour/Co-operative
Karl Turner Labour
Stephen Twigg Labour/Co-operative
Liz Twist Labour
Chuka Umunna Liberal Democrat
Ed Vaizey Conservative
Valerie Vaz Labour
Keith Vaz Labour
Thelma Walker Labour
Tom Watson Labour
Catherine West Labour
Matt Western Labour
Alan Whitehead Labour
Martin Whitfield Labour
Philippa Whitford Scottish National Party
Paul Williams Labour
Hywel Williams Plaid Cymru
Phil Wilson Labour
Pete Wishart Scottish National Party
Sarah Wollaston Independent
Mohammad Yasin Labour
Daniel Zeichner Labour

Well, there you have it one very long list of traitors to democracy and freedom. I hope everyone is taking notice and is preparing to vote accordingly in future elections.

And for those saying votes do not matter just think if you had voted someone else in instead of these parasites. Voting does matter but vote for change, not the same old ****!

 

[dartmoordog]

If any of these represent a leave constituency, then parasite is far too kind.

 

[shbangsteve]

May as well make the best of the situation!

The only good thing about this brexit uncertainty is that wheat prices are low which is making the chicken feed my boss buys about £30/T cheaper therefore the company makes a few quid happy days.

Not good for arable farmers though, but great for the independent poultry producers!

No you have got this totally wrong.If Brexit was cancelled the pound would strengthen and wheat would be cheaper. But so would imports of chicken and eggs.

 

[jimmy milnes]

If any of these represent a leave constituency, then parasite is far too kind.

As stated earlier Pontefract "my home town" has the delightful yvette cooper.. The constituency voted to leave by 69.3 to 30.7 and she back stabs that result at every opportunity. Whilst in town a few months back my better half and I were doing some shopping and bumped into her and hubby Ed, I had to get hold of my other half's arm an drag her away when she smiled at us for fear of a public order incident

 

[Freeforester]

A good measure of the current MP's will not be standing again in their constituencies, for obvious reasons; remember too, no current government (!) can bind the hands of any future government.

When the new administration is formed, it will be able to enact any legislation it deems fit, including revoking the bill presently making its way through parliament.

Remember too, the complexion of the EU parliament also radically changes on Nov 1.

Of course, some here might prefer a Corbyn led government.....

 

[jer]

A good measure of the current MP's will not be standing again in their constituencies, for obvious reasons; remember too, no current government (!) can bind the hands of any future government.

When the new administration is formed, it will be able to enact any legislation it deems fit, including revoking the bill presently making its way through parliament.

Remember too, the complexion of the EU parliament also radically changes on Nov 1.

Of course, some here might prefer a Corbyn led government.....

But Jezza would be able to unite his party and have a clear plan to move forward

 

[Freeforester]

"We hafe about 6-7 years to finalise the deal minimum probably a decade to figure out it was a disaster then another 5 -7 years to get back in the EU and try and fix it "

If only the EU had such a life expectancy!