Big game hunting - marmite
- Thread starter wildfowler.250
- Start date
Most Lions in SA are captive bred, ie in enclosures in game farms. They can then be sold to other outfitters or hunted on the farm they are born. A reputable outfitter will have these as wild managed Lions, ie they are out permanetly in large fenced areas such as 3000 hectares + and fend for themselves.
Canned is when they are drugged and put under a tree for the hunter to shoot them. This is illegal.
When a Lion is now hunted in SA the government sends out a represenative to accompany the hunt to make sure it is all legal.
Canned is when they are drugged and put under a tree for the hunter to shoot them. This is illegal.
When a Lion is now hunted in SA the government sends out a represenative to accompany the hunt to make sure it is all legal.
Thanks
I'm familiar with the captive breeding programs, however I thought the staking out of animals to be shot was a bit of a wife's tale or at least a rare occurrence
Clearly not
A sick practice that is a parody of life in the African bush
I'm familiar with the captive breeding programs, however I thought the staking out of animals to be shot was a bit of a wife's tale or at least a rare occurrence
Clearly not
A sick practice that is a parody of life in the African bush
Yep it is not good but the media blows it all out of context. There are not many Lions shot now in SA.
However, plenty of guys would shoot a deer in a fenced park here in thye UK.
However, plenty of guys would shoot a deer in a fenced park here in thye UK.
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
Canned hunting was a result of demand from mainly US hunters, however it was a minority most US hunters want and support the hunting of true free ranging self supporting (i.e. a breeding population) lions in unfenced areas. There are some concessions in SA that can produce free range lion such as the greater kruger so I think it is unfair to say that all lion hunting in SA is canned. Some fenced areas are so huge that you will never see the fence and in effect the Lions are wild, unlike canned where a lion is released just prior to the hunt in such a small area it cannot evade the hunter whether drugged or not..
howa243
Well-Known Member
I think that there is a big difference between supporting the stalking of deer in a wild (ish) environment and that of doing it a fenced space with animals bred to be shot.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
Do you stalk in the UK, if the answer is yes, then you are a hypocrite! the deer in the UK are as fenced in as any hunted animal I've seen in Africa. Unlike some I go and look then make my mind up, I do not listen to the shitheads in the media.
howa243
Well-Known Member
Are the deer bred to be shot for their heads? Actually I know hat they are, but I would not support that.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
Look I have been in SA and seen places where animals are ranched, these ranches are like our counties LOL. The excess of certain animals are shot, stalked and shot fair! I know nothing of canned or release hunts! but they go on as everyone says they do!
Well guess what the same goes on here in the UK.
The Red deer of the highlands are ranched just the same! on far smaller acreages same with lots of other deer shot. Oh I know roe and munties etc are truly wild, so unless you specialise on these, there is nothing to say. apart from these two are managed for their heads. Then when it comes to game rearing etc.!!!
howa243
Well-Known Member
I don't need to guess because I said 'Are the deer bred to be shot for their heads? Actually I know that they are'.
sikamalc
Administrator
Most of South Africa is now fenced, some areas in Namibia and Botswana are also fenced. Much depends on what you apply as a fenced area. Personally hunting a fenced area of 20,000 hectares is going to be about as wild as you can get in South Africa these days. If its a ranch of 5000 acres fenced its a bit of a joke in my book and I wouldn't be hunting it.
There are still wild open unfenced areas to hunt in many African countries, and this also includes Scotland for Red and Sika deer. When it comes to fenced areas and apex predators being hunted within them it causes a large difference of opinion. Lions need huge areas to maintain a healthy pride system, with plentiful game. There are very few places in SA where that is possible, kruger Park being one of them. As for breeding Lions to be released onto a small ranch and then shot, I for one am not in favour of such things.
When it comes to deer in parks in the UK being culled I suppose in many peoples eyes its the same. But then many of these old established parks have been here for centuries and culling has always taken place. The taking of a large trophy stag within a fenced area is necessary for the health of the herd, it also produces income for the park and is carefully controlled and bloodlines managed. Its a slightly different matter when a Lion or Lions have been bred to maturity and then put on an area where they have little hope of supporting themselves or becoming a pride member and are there purely to be shot. This I think gives hunting a bad name.
Most of my hunting in Africa was in the 1990's and since this time the hunting industry has changed a great deal in my opinion. Certainly within our own shores the stalking industry seems to be going from strength to strength with many people wanting to take it up as a pastime. Africa has seen a change with more culling packages being offered especially in South Africa. Also there is now with many a hunt with a tape measure attitude, by that I mean you get charged for so much for a 50" Kudu, and so much for a 55" Kudu and so on, and upwards. This again I feel is not something that does us any good, and I certainly would not book with anyone who charges in such a manner.
The hunting industry needs to take a long hard look at itself. Hunting is Hunting, its being in the wild and open places, its about experiences, its about emotions, its about outwitting and harvesting an animal, but more importantly its about showing respect for the animal and the place we hunted in.
I just returned form hunting Red Stag in a huge unfenced area in Europe covered by ancient oak forest, no fences and true stalking and hunting. The weather conspired against us and the hot weather and still conditions didn't help us at all. Two guys took a stag, a modest stag and a monster. Me, well I got very near twice, so near you could here the stag breathing, but the light beat us. On the plus side I shot 2 wild boar.
Will I go again? YES. No fences wild areas, stunning scenery, good accommodation and with luck the beast I set out to harvest. Maybe next time I will have more luck, that's hunting.
There are still wild open unfenced areas to hunt in many African countries, and this also includes Scotland for Red and Sika deer. When it comes to fenced areas and apex predators being hunted within them it causes a large difference of opinion. Lions need huge areas to maintain a healthy pride system, with plentiful game. There are very few places in SA where that is possible, kruger Park being one of them. As for breeding Lions to be released onto a small ranch and then shot, I for one am not in favour of such things.
When it comes to deer in parks in the UK being culled I suppose in many peoples eyes its the same. But then many of these old established parks have been here for centuries and culling has always taken place. The taking of a large trophy stag within a fenced area is necessary for the health of the herd, it also produces income for the park and is carefully controlled and bloodlines managed. Its a slightly different matter when a Lion or Lions have been bred to maturity and then put on an area where they have little hope of supporting themselves or becoming a pride member and are there purely to be shot. This I think gives hunting a bad name.
Most of my hunting in Africa was in the 1990's and since this time the hunting industry has changed a great deal in my opinion. Certainly within our own shores the stalking industry seems to be going from strength to strength with many people wanting to take it up as a pastime. Africa has seen a change with more culling packages being offered especially in South Africa. Also there is now with many a hunt with a tape measure attitude, by that I mean you get charged for so much for a 50" Kudu, and so much for a 55" Kudu and so on, and upwards. This again I feel is not something that does us any good, and I certainly would not book with anyone who charges in such a manner.
The hunting industry needs to take a long hard look at itself. Hunting is Hunting, its being in the wild and open places, its about experiences, its about emotions, its about outwitting and harvesting an animal, but more importantly its about showing respect for the animal and the place we hunted in.
I just returned form hunting Red Stag in a huge unfenced area in Europe covered by ancient oak forest, no fences and true stalking and hunting. The weather conspired against us and the hot weather and still conditions didn't help us at all. Two guys took a stag, a modest stag and a monster. Me, well I got very near twice, so near you could here the stag breathing, but the light beat us. On the plus side I shot 2 wild boar.
Will I go again? YES. No fences wild areas, stunning scenery, good accommodation and with luck the beast I set out to harvest. Maybe next time I will have more luck, that's hunting.
Hornet 6
Well-Known Member
How many fenced areas in south africa are the size of say Essex.
Animals are free to move here, and could easily move from one end of the country to the other, it is after all how they spread before that bloke Iffor Williams was born.
Neil.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
Thank you Malcolm for posting this for it looks like maybe Im out of touch. I haven't really hunted SA since the 90s.
I find there is less and less" wild land in Scotland.
I had a fantastic deer forest in Wester ross, I got rid of it for two reasons, two consecutive winters reduced the stock of deer down to about 20% of the former numbers and the whole area was surrounded by deer fences the neighbours put up, so in effect leaving a small population to breed back the original numbers.
I see this everywhere I go in Scotland, from Caithness south, huge amounts of fencing.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
I get what your saying, within reason., but ask yourself this- if they are free to roam from one end of the country to the other, why are there no CWD up near berwick? or munties right the way up north. A lot of the expansion has been stopped by man and helped by other men, eg fences etc stopping them and transit vans helping them.
norfolk shooter
Well-Known Member
As a keen Africa hunter it gets up my nose that hunters wont unite under one banner. Today its the banning or trophy imports tomorrow it will be driven pheasant. If someone would be so kind as to tell me whats sporting about a line of guns firing at birds that have no option other than to go towards them?? That aside I support what they do. Why?? Because they just like us belong to a brotherhood of people that enjoy shooting/hunting. Also are the birds not commercially reared for shoots?? Whats the difference between them and CBL?? Life is life and all of us have and do take life as well as make the choice not to.
The article in the BASC had me angered to the point that I accused them of publishing a piece written by an anti. The term 'canned hunting' is very nasty one. I have come across people that partake in this hunting practice and I distance myself from them as there is no fair chase to it.
PS If I knew about the petition I would've signed it and passed it on
The article in the BASC had me angered to the point that I accused them of publishing a piece written by an anti. The term 'canned hunting' is very nasty one. I have come across people that partake in this hunting practice and I distance myself from them as there is no fair chase to it.
PS If I knew about the petition I would've signed it and passed it on
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