electric cars,,,,

[alberta boy]

Surprised why aren’t we seeing

At least a hybrid crew cab pick up for Uk market yet ?

Also how does electric mount up with regards to towing ?

Does your range drop dramatically as with mpg on fuel car ?


Paul

That would definitely interest me . The situation here is , obviously , very different from the UK , or even urban areas in southern Canada . There are no , and I mean zero , charging stations anywhere near me . I drive over 800 klms , one way , to job sites fairly regularly . I sometimes have problems finding enough fuel to get into some areas as it is , in fact , most of us carry auxilliary , 200 gallon , fuel tanks . We have road signs warning drivers of distances to the next fuel stop throughout the province , sometimes exceeding 400 klms . I like the idea of electric , but it isn't even remotely practical out here yet . A hybrid would be at least workable . I have a few friends with electric cars , their range dropped dramatically during the last cold snap , -40C for over a week , so there is a lot of room left in battery development . As too towing , electric motors produce huge amounts of torque , so pulling loads shouldn't be a problem , but I would assume it would require more energy to do so , so your range would drop while towing . Long story short , I'm in , when they become a practical solution , until then , I'll stick with my 5.7 liter Hemi lol .

AB

 

[Husky]

Thanks for that, it's even cheaper than the new Defender !!!

 

[alberta boy]

I'm no longer a fan of hybrids or plug in hybrids.
They are the classic example of machine which can do two thing, but can do neither thing well.
If you are running on electric power in a "mild" hybrid you'll be lucky to get more than a mile of range.
These cars are best in slow moving traffic where you can doddle along in electric power and not be putting out nasty emission when the vehicle us not moving.
When you are running on the petrol engine (which is probably 90% of the time) you are lugging around the weight of the battery pack and the electric motors which are doing nothing for you
Trust me, I know about this. I had a Lexus RX400H and now have a Lexus NX300H.
I didn't buy them because they were hybrids, I bought them because Lexus build comfortable, well equipped, reliable cars.
Plug in Hybrids suffer from the same issues, except that some of them do have enough range to make them usable as pure electric commuter vehicles, although none of them on sale in the UK at present can do more than about 30 miles in pure electric mode.
Towing when in pure electric mode will destroy the electric range.
In fact, when towing, all current plug in hybrids would spend virtually all their time running their petrol engines except when sitting in traffic or going downhill!
I did consider buying a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
Over the right ground, it could be a great foxing vehicle because, in electric mode, it is virtually silent.
However, it's definitely not designed for off road use and the with the battery pack the lowest point on the vehicle and covering a large part of the underside of the vehicle, it could get extremely expensive if the battery pack got whacked by a rock
I agree that a pick up like the Hilux could be the basis for an excellent ev pick up - but try telling that to Toyota.
After coming up with their hybrid drive which is now available for most of their cars, they stubbornly refuse to accept the need for pure electric cars.
Actually, there is a pure electric Lexus UX coming out next year, and they have just entered some form of partnership with Panasonic to research battery technology, but they have fallen way behind the curve on pure electric vehicles.

Cheers

Bruce

Good post , you pretty much summed up the reality of EV's .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

Cool , it almost has the range I'd need . My main concern would still be performance in extreme cold , it's a bit of a constant out here for about 6 months of the year . Definitely a step in the right direction though .

AB

 

[Rory]

Toyota will be doing a hybrid Hilux

Toyota HiLux to go hybrid - carsales.com.au

Next-generation HiLux will get a hybrid powertrain and Toyota won't rule out diesel-electric tech

www.motoring.com.au

 

[alberta boy]

Toyota will be doing a hybrid Hilux

Toyota HiLux to go hybrid - carsales.com.au

Next-generation HiLux will get a hybrid powertrain and Toyota won't rule out diesel-electric tech

www.motoring.com.au

I'd prefer something by Toyota or other big maker , just for later parts and service . I doubt any of the the newer concept companies will be around after a few years .......... plus I like Hilux' , great vehicles .

AB

 

[xavierdoc]

Cool , it almost has the range I'd need . My main concern would still be performance in extreme cold , it's a bit of a constant out here for about 6 months of the year . Definitely a step in the right direction though .

AB

To a limited extent you can mitigate against cold conditions by preconditioning the battery and cabin while the car is still plugged-in (this can be set using app on phone or programming car) but this relies on knowing your approx departure time. If your destination doesn't have somewhere to plug-in then you obviously can't do this. Using heating/Air con in the car also reduces range.

It'll come though.

 

[xavierdoc]

Surprised why aren’t we seeing

At least a hybrid crew cab pick up for Uk market yet ?

Also how does electric mount up with regards to towing ?

Does your range drop dramatically as with mpg on fuel car ?


Paul

They have the torque, for sure, but aerodynamic drag has a proportionally greater effect on EV range than ICE vehicles at present. So roof boxes, trailers, bike-racks, fat-tyres all have a negative effect.

 

[alberta boy]

To a limited extent you can mitigate against cold conditions by preconditioning the battery and cabin while the car is still plugged-in (this can be set using app on phone or programming car) but this relies on knowing your approx departure time. If your destination doesn't have somewhere to plug-in then you obviously can't do this. Using heating/Air con in the car also reduces range.

It'll come though.

Yes , that's the problem . I'll spend up to a week in the bush driving around , no plug ins . You put your finger on another problem here . Driving around in -30C and lower temps , you need heat , a lot of it . I'm sure someone can figure out what the wind chill factor of driving at 100 km per hour in -40 is , it's a bit nipplely . Running heaters at full blast sucks a lot of power , couple that with decreased efficiency in the cold and your range starts to drop very quickly .

AB

 

[mealiejimmy]

Toyota will be doing a hybrid Hilux

Toyota HiLux to go hybrid - carsales.com.au

Next-generation HiLux will get a hybrid powertrain and Toyota won't rule out diesel-electric tech

www.motoring.com.au

Looks like it's still a "mild" hybrid, not a plug in hybrid.
That means the range will be rubbish - definitely only a couple of miles.
I can't see that being much use to those living outside towns and cities

Cheers

Bruce

 

[mealiejimmy]

Just to put some numbers on the Toyota hybrid vehicles
These were commonly known as "mild" hybrids, but Toyota's marketing people had to find a new name for them when other manufacturers started producing plug in hybrids and pure evs, both of which make the Toyota system definitely 3rd class.
What was known as a "mild" hybrid Toyota now call a "self charging hybrid" - brilliant marketing and entirely misleading.
Any way, the Lexus RX450H uses the most powerful version of Toyotas hybrid drive and has the largest battery.
That battery is NOT lithium ion, it's the much older Nickel metal Hydride chemistry.
The battery has a voltage of 288 volts and a capacity of 6.5 amp hours.
That gives it an energy storage capacity of just under 1.9KWH
If you drive really slowly on a flat road, you might just get 2 miles range on pure electric
A Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a 13.8KWH battery and manages about 23 miles on pure electric
A Kia E Niro has a 64KWH battery and has a range of approx 250 miles
A mild hybrid Hilux is just a joke.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Klenchblaize]

Rather than further complicate matters I give you a song of sobering truth for Mankind and irrispective of the multiplicity of twists & turns in this automobile themed thread. Or should I venture but one challenge we must face in the wake that is the rape of our beautiful planet?

I just cannot get my head around how, in so few years, we've so comprehensively fooked things up and mindful it was only 40 something Winters ago many of us had to scrape the frost from the inside of the bedroom window to gaze upon the brave new world and the only instant warmth that was the vent from a Morris Minor's heater!

K

 

[Liveonce]

Drive down the average terraced house roads and you notice the houses struggle with room for the two or three rubbish wheelie bins where will all these electric charging points go? let alone the cost of providing them plus the additional power stations. Certainly going to get interesting,

 

[Klenchblaize]

Give us a truly inclusive and usable road & rail Public Transport system, that most critically is given of pre Dr. Beaching Axe connectivity, and it would go a long way in negating the need for ownership of a motor car or at least cutting their use by something approaching 75%.

K

 

[mealiejimmy]

Drive down the average terraced house roads and you notice the houses struggle with room for the two or three rubbish wheelie bins where will all these electric charging points go? let alone the cost of providing them plus the additional power stations. Certainly going to get interesting,

Where do all the cars go at the moment?
If there space to park a car, there's space for a charge point.
We've already covered, and busted the "we'll need more power stations" myth
If the charging point is in a public place, then the local authority pays for providing it (but gets money from central government to cover some or all of the cost)
If you buy an electric car (new or used) anywhere in the UK and want to charge it on your own property then the government provide a £500 grant to help with the cost of supplying and installing the charge point.
If you live in Scotland, you can get up to another £500 grant to cover the cost of supplying and installing a home charging point
In addition, if you are resident in Scotland and buy a new electric car or plug in hybrid car, the Scottish government can provide an interest free loan of up to £35000 for up to 6 years for this purchase

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Odders]

Where do all the cars go at the moment?
If there space to park a car, there's space for a charge point.
We've already covered, and busted the "we'll need more power stations" myth
If the charging point is in a public place, then the local authority pays for providing it (but gets money from central government to cover some or all of the cost)
If you buy an electric car (new or used) anywhere in the UK and want to charge it on your own property then the government provide a £500 grant to help with the cost of supplying and installing the charge point.
If you live in Scotland, you can get up to another £500 grant to cover the cost of supplying and installing a home charging point
In addition, if you are resident in Scotland and buy a new electric car or plug in hybrid car, the Scottish government can provide an interest free loan of up to £35000 for up to 6 years for this purchase

Cheers

Bruce

So:
We need at least 7 new nuke plants (plus 7 more to replace old ones)
The national grid beefed up.
Cabling to every street beefed up.
Consumer units beefed up.
A minimum of 5 MILLION charging points, with associated cabling (& that's just the ones outside homes - add another million or three at peoples' places of work).
EV batteries to become at least twice as efficient, or four times for us poor sods in rural areas.
Oh & another TEN new nuke plants to replace a gas & coal fired ones that currently produce HALF our power.
Current public chargers either hit you with a connection fee (typically £3) plus 16-20p/kwh or charge up to 30p/kwh, thus ensuring small diesels are still cheaper per mile.

 

[Alantoo]

So:
We need at least 7 new nuke plants (plus 7 more to replace old ones)
The national grid beefed up.
Cabling to every street beefed up.
Consumer units beefed up.
A minimum of 5 MILLION charging points, with associated cabling (& that's just the ones outside homes - add another million or three at peoples' places of work).
EV batteries to become at least twice as efficient, or four times for us poor sods in rural areas.
Oh & another TEN new nuke plants to replace a gas & coal fired ones that currently produce HALF our power.
Current public chargers either hit you with a connection fee (typically £3) plus 16-20p/kwh or charge up to 30p/kwh, thus ensuring small diesels are still cheaper per mile.

Sounds like a plan...or would you rather a few more open cast coal mines and coal fired power stations, and a few more oil wells and fracking sites and clear the rain forest for palm oil plantations? Cost of diesel is not going to go down at any time as the reserves are used up...if one can power personal transport with Nuclear Energy seems a logical way forwards to me.

Take out the military requirements of Nuclear so we can move to Thorium Salt reactors rather than uranium and with the thermo salt plugs we have a chemically failsafe source of energy....win win.

Alan

 

[AGR]

Sounds like a plan...or would you rather a few more open cast coal mines and coal fired power stations, and a few more oil wells and fracking sites and clear the rain forest for palm oil plantations? Cost of diesel is not going to go down at any time as the reserves are used up...if one can power personal transport with Nuclear Energy seems a logical way forwards to me.

Take out the military requirements of Nuclear so we can move to Thorium Salt reactors rather than uranium and with the thermo salt plugs we have a chemically failsafe source of energy....win win.

Alan

Some people on this site are far too clever. I was reading your post and heard something whizz past my head.
Oh, it was that last paragraph!

 

[Alantoo]

Some people on this site are far too clever. I was reading your post and heard something whizz past my head.
Oh, it was that last paragraph!

Lucky it went past and didn't "go in one ear and out the other"...always thought that must be a bit uncomfortable.

Alan

 

[mealiejimmy]

So:
We need at least 7 new nuke plants (plus 7 more to replace old ones)
The national grid beefed up.
Cabling to every street beefed up.
Consumer units beefed up.
A minimum of 5 MILLION charging points, with associated cabling (& that's just the ones outside homes - add another million or three at peoples' places of work).
EV batteries to become at least twice as efficient, or four times for us poor sods in rural areas.
Oh & another TEN new nuke plants to replace a gas & coal fired ones that currently produce HALF our power.
Current public chargers either hit you with a connection fee (typically £3) plus 16-20p/kwh or charge up to 30p/kwh, thus ensuring small diesels are still cheaper per mile.

Lets review this discussion in 2035 when the sale of new fossil fuel cars is banned, and the number of electric cars on the the roads is vastly more than it is today.
The we'll know how many new nuclear power stations have been built.
I'll ignore most of the rest of your ramblings but will tell you that in Scotland, if you buy a £20 Charge Point Scotland card, you can charge your car for free at most public charging points in Scotland Greener Scotland - Your one-stop website for greener living.
The charges you quote are for motorway service area rapid chargers (typically 50-150KW) and not for 7KW public chargers

Cheers

Bruce