NoIDeer
Well-Known Member
It must be a curiosity that the the biggest and hardest to kill game/wildfowl birds are shot with steel?
Basc voluntary lead ban
- Thread starter Roestalker39
- Start date
It must be a curiosity that the the biggest and hardest to kill game/wildfowl birds are shot with steel?
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
Oh sorry been a bit slow it’s funny how these organisations forget who pays their wages.
There is "more lead in beer than game meat," say MPs
Explore expert insights and reviews on There Is More Lead In Beer Than Game Meat Say Mps gear. Find top-rated equipment, tips, and must-have accessories.
www.shootinguk.co.uk
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The scientific studies say its not brilliant idea to consume lead, the supermarkets & public understand that message. In the next few years there will be no commercial market for lead shot birds which appears to be the main driver behind the joint announcement.
My shoot went totally non toxic last season as a experiment to see what the future would look like, there was absolutely no difference in the kill to cartridge ratio, no increased wounding and the guns were happy to carry on this season, one gun did complain that there were no good steel loads available for his 16 bore so stuck with the 12 most of the time.
MAH
Well-Known Member
BASC put an article in yesterday's Times.
headlines is: "Leading shooting and rural organisations have today announced they want an end to the use of lead and single-use plastics in shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting within five years".
More info:
Shooting and rural organisations take responsibility of move away from lead ammunition
Shooting and rural organisations announce five-year transition away from lead shot and single-use plastics for live quarry shooting.
basc.org.uk
M.
MAH
Well-Known Member
Take a look here.
Shooting and rural organisations take responsibility of move away from lead ammunition
Shooting and rural organisations announce five-year transition away from lead shot and single-use plastics for live quarry shooting.
basc.org.uk
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
I have to say that I don't think kill to cartridge ratios and wounding in this case are down to cartridges... The fact that I can't hit ducks crossing on a gale has nothing to do with £2 bismuth 16 bore loads. It's because the ducks are too fast for me!
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The lack of a broad choice of steel loads is a matter of concern, however the ball is firmly in the court of the ammo manufacturers. Those that are successful at producing good steel loads will thrive, those that don't will risk failure.
I think you're all making a fuss for the sheer hell of it.
For years we've been wanting our representative organisations to work together. Now it seems that they are. Result.
For years we've been promoting the clean green credentials of shooting sports, and now we're voluntarily going to get even cleaner and greener. Result.
Where's the issue?
For years we've been wanting our representative organisations to work together. Now it seems that they are. Result.
For years we've been promoting the clean green credentials of shooting sports, and now we're voluntarily going to get even cleaner and greener. Result.
Where's the issue?
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Well lots of people think that BASC et al's job is to "defend" fieldsports and make sure everything stays the same, as their experience of change is that it is always restrictive and negative in this area. If, however, the mission is to promote fieldsports, then the status quo isn't an option. It isn't anyway. I'm not saying the BASC is great at doing this, but given that within fieldsports there are neither the numbers, nor the cash to have much political clout, there is only persuasion, and that is only going to be done through cumulative action and demonstration. In turn, that can enable taking control of the conversation. But it's slow and painstaking work.
Big_Sparky
Well-Known Member
As with most online debate - the conversation has certainly gone round the houses at least twice 
Ultimately, I guess it comes down to one of two viewpoints, IF you believe that the road towards lead free is already a path that cannot be turned away from - then this collective statement from the various Organisations actually makes a lot of sense and will hopefully give everyone five years to get their house in order. However, IF you believe that lead could and should be here to stay, the various Organisations have sold us all down the river in pursuit of an easy life or a holiday timeshare in the sun from steelshotguncartridgesrus.com.
From everything I’ve read & from listening to the many varied opinions on here as well as other such forums, I personally believe the answer is probably somewhere in between those two opinions.....
However, for the purposes of a good old social media debate - its usually best to pick a side and throw stuff at the self appointed opposition!!
In conclusion to another brief interjection on my part - I do have one question: as relatively new person to shooting organisation membership (for transparency I’m a member of SACS and have been over the moon with the individual advice and help they’ve given me thus far) how often, if ever, do the various Organisations canvas the opinion of their members on positions such as this?
Ultimately, I guess it comes down to one of two viewpoints, IF you believe that the road towards lead free is already a path that cannot be turned away from - then this collective statement from the various Organisations actually makes a lot of sense and will hopefully give everyone five years to get their house in order. However, IF you believe that lead could and should be here to stay, the various Organisations have sold us all down the river in pursuit of an easy life or a holiday timeshare in the sun from steelshotguncartridgesrus.com.
From everything I’ve read & from listening to the many varied opinions on here as well as other such forums, I personally believe the answer is probably somewhere in between those two opinions.....
However, for the purposes of a good old social media debate - its usually best to pick a side and throw stuff at the self appointed opposition!!
In conclusion to another brief interjection on my part - I do have one question: as relatively new person to shooting organisation membership (for transparency I’m a member of SACS and have been over the moon with the individual advice and help they’ve given me thus far) how often, if ever, do the various Organisations canvas the opinion of their members on positions such as this?
I shall be very enthusiastic to dump lead ammunition of any type the second either of the following happen:
1. Scientific evidence proving the use of lead ammunition harmed any human, or results in significant levels of identifiable illnesses or deaths in animals (other than the intended effect).
2. A genuine suitable alternative ammunition which works properly and safely in my guns exists.
Thus far, neither condition is met.
There is nothing green, progressive, sustainable or remotely intelligent about being taken in by mumbo-jumbo. Much more of this nonsense and we'll be back to burning witches.
1. Scientific evidence proving the use of lead ammunition harmed any human, or results in significant levels of identifiable illnesses or deaths in animals (other than the intended effect).
2. A genuine suitable alternative ammunition which works properly and safely in my guns exists.
Thus far, neither condition is met.
There is nothing green, progressive, sustainable or remotely intelligent about being taken in by mumbo-jumbo. Much more of this nonsense and we'll be back to burning witches.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily disagreeing with you but the reality is that the non-shooting consumer of game would rather not have it with a sprinkling of lead.
I think the reality is that you can count the "non-shooting consumers of game" on very few fingers. and their wishes are of zero relevance to the majority of shooters, whose game is not placed on the market.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
It's hard to square this circle but it needs to be for shooting to continue. It goes something like this, viewed from the outside:
1. Millions of game birds are bred every year to be shot.
2. This is OK because they are eaten, there are biodiversity benefits, it makes money.
3. If 2 isn't true, then 1. isn't OK.
Lead shot potentially stops 2. being true, because shooters don't eat all those game birds. This is because of the scale of driven game breeding and shooting, and is true even if most shooters don't actively join in.
Basically, the "value chain" is all wrong... Shooting and eating a harvestable surplus is one thing. Creating excessive supply is another. The latter in the case of game birds undermines the former in for instance the case of deer. Yes it's simplistic and certainly on the ground there is lots of nuance, but perhaps not from the outside, which is where the argument needs to be won.
That's a rational but incomplete argument, and clearly you also know that the issue is actually the scale of commercial shoots.
Re. 1. Millions of game birds are bred to be shot, but the only number ever presented is something that idiot Packham and fat fool with the chip on his shoulder dreamt up on the back of a fag packet. Firstly, the estimate is clearly grossly excessive and needs to be dismantled anyway.
Re. 3. OK., but this would be a non-issue if instead the plan was to curb the excessive greed of big bag chasing - from both sides of the chequebook. This would have greater biodiversity benefits and would also reduce the attention from militant commies (antis).
Lead shot's not the issue. Commercialism is the issue.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Well I tend to agree, and I cringe a bit every time I see the "shooting industry" mentioned in print. I certainly don't consider myself part of an industry (not this one, anyway) and I don't like to be associated with that lens. That said, it needs to fund itself. Perhaps taking the lead (biddum! Churrrrr!) on lead can buy us time and momentum to sort out the bigger structural problem.
mereside
Well-Known Member
me personally don't just blame BASC there is a lot of big orgs all on that letter together, I have let all but one go now, there are many disciplines this will hit hard and to say it's only game is just closing your eyes and chucking others under the bus because people don't do a certain discipline or it actually affecting them at this time, as a side note i had to smash up my floor to my house not long back as i had a water leak, yorkshire water had no interest as it was in the property although i had no stopcock, outside. so ended up doing it myself as I found it was a lead water pipe nobody wanted to touch it so had to solder my own lead pipes, I wonder how many older houses are like mine having lead and not copper at the start,regards wayne
