243 legal??

[bogtrotter]

I do love it when the first point made in an argument is an insult. Well played sir, do you believe that this approach makes your point even more believable?

You said it yourself. " In 39 years of .243 shooting and reloading, I’ve never come across a 10 twist rifle that won’t shoot a 100gr flat base softpoint such as the ProHunter or the Hornady spire point (that Hornady has discontinued now I think).". Then you start to reel off reasons why, folk use the wrong bullet and that it causes problems etc. Whatever, stick any bullet you like in a 6.5 calibre and you're sorted. That Fiesta can still do 100mph, what's your point and how does that make what I say nonsense? If you read what I said again and compare it to what you said, you actually agree with some of the things I said but are angry about it? I never said it couldn't kill deer, I said it struggles with 100gr bullets and you backed that point straigh up with your "In 39 years of .243 shooting and reloading, I’ve never come across a 10 twist rifle that won’t shoot a 100gr flat base softpoint such as the ProHunter or the Hornady spire point (that Hornady has discontinued now I think) ". Why can't it shoot a boat tail or monolithic? Because it's marginal.

Well mine shoots boat tails without any issues, have heard all the tales of 1in 10 twist .243s not handling 100 gr
bullets and I don't doubt there may be some truth in it ,I have never encountered one and I have experience of
more than a few.
Not near as common as some would have you believe.

 

[Smellydog]

Just for a bit of interest since a lot are sitting at home - a .243 bullet that I found in a healthy, heavy hind. Glancing shot that had damaged the shoulder and broken a few ribs but failed to penetrate into chest. Bullet was sitting against the ribs under the skin.

I would happily use a .243 with the right bullets on deer btw.

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I would of liked to see the same shot done with a 45/70! The result would of been a lot different.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Thanks for the insight JCS.
Do you think that possibly that at some time in the future an industry will pop up converting .243win rifles to 6.5 Creedmoor and above.

I think a few folk may get their 243 Wins re-barrelled, that's certainly the plan for my 6XC. I think more folk will just keep their 243 Wins for roe and vermin and invest in new rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 x 55 or something larger.
Regards
JCS

 

[User00025]

To me it's all down to mindset. As a youth I shot Fallow with .22 rimfire and .22 Hornet
and concentrated on placement as the danger distance on ammo boxes convinced me they were ok.
For many years 6.5 x 54 MS was my tool for all deer, then 7 x 57 for Reds.
A .243 to me is marginal for large deer but that is only my present mindset as I know subconsciously a Hornet would still do the job.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Just for a bit of interest since a lot are sitting at home - a .243 bullet that I found in a healthy, heavy hind. Glancing shot that had damaged the shoulder and broken a few ribs but failed to penetrate into chest. Bullet was sitting against the ribs under the skin.

I would happily use a .243 with the right bullets on deer btw.

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Could it possibly be a bullet that had killed the intended deer and exited into another close behind or nearby?
Giving the benefit of the doubt the stalker either hadn’t seen it or the bullet exited at a tangent.
There’s also the possibility that they just shouldn’t of pulled the trigger.

 

[takbok]

Could it possibly be a bullet that had killed the intended deer and exited into another close behind or nearby?
Giving the benefit of the doubt the stalker either hadn’t seen it or the bullet exited at a tangent.
There’s also the possibility that they just shouldn’t of pulled the trigger.

It's a possibility, but it had a fair bit of energy to break/damage the shoulderblade of the hind, which had healed -there was very little muscle on that shoulder. The bullet has a boat tail so could be a gameking etc or a lighter varmint bullet. I weighed the bullet remnants at around 50gr IIRC.

 

[njc110381]

Insulted? Jeez, harden up mate! What on earth is happening to you lot these days?!

Don't get me wrong I'm not going to cry myself to sleep at night because of it. It's just not a very polite thing to say. Generally speaking when I don't know a person and I address them on a forum, I don't start off by being rude even if in my head I'm calling them a **** whilst I'm typing!

In my opinion it's just not well suited to Scottish legislation. Someone above said that they'd like to see what a .45-70 bullet would do on the same carcass the .243 bullet broke up on but again, that ain't happening in Scotland either. To be honest their legislation baffles me as it's pretty restrictive. .243 can struggle with bullet weight, 6.5x55 can fail on velocity with heavier bullets. That leaves .25-06 to .30-06 class cartridges and the magnums. Once the bullets start getting to the point they rely on weight for their energy they start to fall foul again. It's just daft!

 

[CSFL]

Please pardon my ignorance, as am new on the scene and am no home loader. Is the jist that when non-toxic becomes the requirement, a .243 is man enough to take the mandatory weight bullet in Scotland? In my case not a problem because I could take my .308. I'm about to buy a .243 for vermin (and deer should the opportunity arise) should I be worried about whether it will adequately shoot a non-toxic round?

 

[jb7x57]

Law in Scotland is 100grn bullet for large deer not roe but there is no 100grn non lead bullets are available as I can find

 

[CSFL]

I see, are there sub 100 grn non lead options available yet and will they perform in a conventional 1:10 twist 243 barrel? Obviously not for use on large game in Scotland....

 

[CSFL]

I see, are there sub 100 grn non lead options available yet and will they perform in a conventional 1:10 twist 243 barrel? Obviously not for use on large game in Scotland....

 

[jb7x57]

There are some good sub 100grn that will work and be legal in England

 

[EDCM]

Just get a creedmoor

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Please pardon my ignorance, as am new on the scene and am no home loader. Is the jist that when non-toxic becomes the requirement, a .243 is man enough to take the mandatory weight bullet in Scotland? In my case not a problem because I could take my .308. I'm about to buy a .243 for vermin (and deer should the opportunity arise) should I be worried about whether it will adequately shoot a non-toxic round?

The 243 was originally designed as a deer and Varmint rifle. With a 1 in 10” twist it was intended for a flat base 100 grain bullet and a lighter Varmint bullet. The problem arises as it is the length not specifically the weight that affects stability. Non toxic bullets are longer for a given weight than lead. As such a 100 grain non toxic would be too long to stabilise in the standard twist barrel. So you have two options for legal use in Scotland change the law so the existing 80/85’s can be used. Or you build (or the manufacturer’s change to) a faster twist barrel that will stabilise a yet to be available 100 grain non toxic 6mm bullet.
In all honesty I cannot see either happening anytime soon. The Scottish market is too small for it to be financially viable in my opinion.
I have changed my smaller deer calibre to 6.5x55 as I can get Scottish legal ammunition off the shelf or reload for it. I can see the 6.5 in whichever cartridge becoming the standard minimum for large deer North of the boarder.

 

[jb7x57]

I have a 7x64 as well so no problem for me where I am forced to use copper bullets.
just like my 243 as well

 

[CSFL]

The 243 was originally designed as a deer and Varmint rifle. With a 1 in 10” twist it was intended for a flat base 100 grain bullet and a lighter Varmint bullet. The problem arises as it is the length not specifically the weight that affects stability. Non toxic bullets are longer for a given weight than lead. As such a 100 grain non toxic would be too long to stabilise in the standard twist barrel. So you have two options for legal use in Scotland change the law so the existing 80/85’s can be used. Or you build (or the manufacturer’s change to) a faster twist barrel that will stabilise a yet to be available 100 grain non toxic 6mm bullet.
In all honesty I cannot see either happening anytime soon. The Scottish market is too small for it to be financially viable in my opinion.
I have changed my smaller deer calibre to 6.5x55 as I can get Scottish legal ammunition off the shelf or reload for it. I can see the 6.5 in whichever cartridge becoming the standard minimum for large deer North of the boarder.

Got it, thank you for the explanation.

 

[Smellydog]

Personally I think they will change the law.
They will move the goal posts like normal when someone points out they have created a foul. They can't stand being blamed for anything!

 

[8x57]

Personally I think they will change the law.
They will move the goal posts like normal when someone points out they have created a foul. They can't stand being blamed for anything!

Smellydog you could very well be correct. However the big question will be in what way will they change it. No doubt there will be some sort of warped logic applied following influences applied by outside "relevant partners" or is that just my cynical side showing through once again.

 

[Smellydog]

Smellydog you could very well be correct. However the big question will be in what way will they change it. No doubt there will be some sort of warped logic applied following influences applied by outside "relevant partners" or is that just my cynical side showing through once again.

Cynical....no, realistic....yes.

 

[25 Sharps]