Scotland Lead Free Roe Load for .222/.223 Remington

[borbal]

The attack on the production of food as the primary reason for shooting game is directly linked to the idea that if our "food" is full of lead it can not be commercially viable and therefore the justification for shooting is removed.

My point was that there is no evidence lead in bullets is harmful, either to those eating what was shot using them or to the environment. It is an assumption that is deemed to be self evident. And the whole theme of "lead in the food chain" is hung on the peg of "damaging the environment", another button to push in opposition to the shooting sports.

My other point, however, is that you will not see any (serious) opposition to this from the gun trade, for the reasons I laid out...

GK

A simple picture showing for example a 308 - 130 grains bullet View attachment 170893 Tri zones for the new pythagorian expansion (easily visibles by zooming the image)
CNC machined - tolerance 1 micrometer copper and tip (also machined, NOT injected).

A thing of beauty...!

But a barrel twist of 1:12 is really just sufficient to stabilise this bullet, which is the standard twist for a 308 Win. That means that this 130 grain bullet is really the heaviest that can be considered commercially viable for the hunting market - and you have to ask yourself if it is heavy enough for anything but short range pest control?

I know that makers of monoliths in Scandinavia are struggling because of lack of take-up. I know several people here in the UK who have looked at entering this market, but who reluctantly decided that it was was not profitable - yet.

I wish you luck on this venture...

GK

 

[EQUADIF68]

Barrel twist 1:12 is ok for the 130 grain - and the 130 grain works wonderfully on any European game. Heavier is existing but to be used for other hunting applications.
Barrel twist 1:11 is available almost everywhere
The practice shows that in most of the cases the 110 grains is superb ( this is what I'm personaly using ).
Appreciate your message and your comments, thanks a lot.

 

[borbal]

...Barrel twist 1:11 is available almost everywhere

Ah yes, but you are making the point that if monoliths are to become widely used, then there will have to be a wide-scale move by stalkers to scrap their existing rifles and buy new ones with faster twist barrels.
The day will come, I am sure, when this happens. The EU will pass a law, sooner rather than later, banning lead in any component part of ammunition. I look forward to that - it will be very good for the gun trade!

GK

 

[EQUADIF68]

An this is one good reason why we do not have to "wait & see", we just have to be active proactive. We agree

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

My point was that there is no evidence lead in bullets is harmful, either to those eating what was shot using them or to the environment. It is an assumption that is deemed to be self evident. And the whole theme of "lead in the food chain" is hung on the peg of "damaging the environment", another button to push in opposition to the shooting sports.

Incorrect
The lack of interest in the results does not make the findings of thousands of peer reviewed scientific studies and publications invalid.
In short - Eating a known toxin is BAD. How bad depends on a number of variables.
But one thing is clear "There is no known safe level of lead in the body"

2-4 Di Nitro Toluene is a known carcinogen.
It was banned.
It doesn't matter how little is in used in Varget, you can't continue using a small amount telling people "it's fine"

We know lead is bad and industries have moved a long way to remove it from pencils, paint, petrol, pipes etc

We have an alternative that works.
Use it or lose it

 

[Steff]

Ah yes, but you are making the point that if monoliths are to become widely used, then there will have to be a wide-scale move by stalkers to scrap their existing rifles and buy new ones with faster twist barrels.
The day will come, I am sure, when this happens. The EU will pass a law, sooner rather than later, banning lead in any component part of ammunition. I look forward to that - it will be very good for the gun trade!

GK

We have a bit of a lead-free history in Germany meanwhile. I'm afraid (or glad) that your predictions about people having to buy new rifles will not come true. We are more or less happily using our old guns with new, lead-free ammunition. There are exceptions of course, such as the .222 with slow twists. But on a larger scale, the problem doesn't really exist.

PS: The EU law banning all lead ammo is already on its way.

 

[Buchan]

zero evidence for lead in bullets being an environmental hazard

That's not the case I'm afraid. Lead from ammunition is the biggest source for lead poisoning in scavenging animals, especially birds. There are plenty of peer-reviewed papers, this being one: Lead poisoning and the deceptive recovery of the critically endangered California condor There is no work that I've found for the UK, but it seems likely.

 

[borbal]

We have an alternative that works.
Use it or lose it

Ah yes, the hospitals have been full of people with lead poisoning from eating deer and other game shot with lead cored bullets...... But you get no argument from me. I am in the gun trade too, after all.

GK

 

[badbob]

The writings on the wall in respect of lead free ammunition,
Its not a real problem except for our legal deer calibre bullet weights.
With 95% weight retention there`s no need any more.
I`m trying Hornaday 35gr NTX at the moment ( lead free varmint)
Id like to try 130 grain in my .308, 80grain in the .243 , and Edinburghs tipless 50 gr in the.222.

 

[308tikka]

That's not the case I'm afraid. Lead from ammunition is the biggest source for lead poisoning in scavenging animals, especially birds. There are plenty of peer-reviewed papers, this being one: Lead poisoning and the deceptive recovery of the critically endangered California condor There is no work that I've found for the UK, but it seems likely.

This old chestnut?

wasnt it a virus...?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Ah yes, the hospitals have been full of people with lead poisoning from eating deer and other game shot with lead cored bullets...... But you get no argument from me. I am in the gun trade too, after all.

GK

Hospitals aren't full of people full of dioxins from drinking milk or mercury from eating shellfish, or any contaminant in any food product.
We wouldnt tolerate "may contain iron filings" in our beef. Why do we question why the supermarkets want lead free meat?
But that's why we have food standards.

Everyone complains about venison prices but is doing very little to improve the quality of the product and promote THEIR venison
Even the beef and lamb farmers have figured out that the branding of THEIR beef and provenance makes it worth more.
More estates and volume producers need to brand their produce and get it to market rather than just tossing at the dealer who pays the most.

When (not IF) the venison industry is regulated, the hammer will really fall.
If you think you are getting a hard deal as a stalker now..just wait until the bean-counters really sharpen their pencils.

Check out the paperwork required to kill your own livestock and sell it let alone the paperwork and tracking required for handling from field to fork.

using a different bullet is not the major change it is made out to be compared to what WILL come

 

[Buchan]

This old chestnut?

wasnt it a virus...?

Not sure if this is tongue in cheek, but there are many peer reviwed papers on the subject. Virus? - news to me so I checked. They have run a vaccination programme for West Nile Virus in chicks, so this might be it.

It's like Ed said - get used to it. WHO have stated there is no safe limit for lead in the body.

 

[User00040]

WHO have stated there is no safe limit for lead in the body.

The WHO... the same people who said wearing a mask was unnecessary and did not reduce CV19 transmission, yet the countries who went ahead and enforced it anyway (Japan, Korea) are doing a lot better. Then a curt U turn from them (standard fare for any political organisation).

Thanks for the joke!

 

[Buchan]

Funnily enough there is a parallel with mask wearing and lead. It isn't known, for certain, how much lead is damaging, long or short term; but lead is toxic. As there are alternatives, it makes sense on a precautionary basis if nothing else to use the alternatives.
It isn't known, for certain, how much Covid transmission is from truly asymptomatic people, but as a mask may have some effect (and seems not to reduce the other precautions) it makes sense on a precuationary basis.

 

[EQUADIF68]

I've got a certain number of messages on my mail box reg the .224''
Thanks a lot to everyone
Few more pics showing the projectile which conserves 100% of its initial mass after expansion


Expansion speeds : 950, 860 and 820 m/s

 

[EQUADIF68]

The ballistic table for my rifle there - see on the picture ( previous post ) the contact projectile/barrel is limited so there is no barrel burning

 

[EQUADIF68]

The rifle has got a 26'' barrel (527 GRS) and the groups at 100 m with this projectile are between 1/4 MOA when I do my part to 1/2 MOA

 

[EQUADIF68]

Have also such data for 308, 284, 8mm, 9.3, 338, ...
Long Ranges projectiles are under tests and validation ( L.R. means projectiles calculated for speed higher than 800m/s at 300 meters ) especially 270, 264, 284, etc ....

 

[308tikka]

Have also such data for 308, 284, 8mm, 9.3, 338, ...
Long Ranges projectiles are under tests and validation ( L.R. means projectiles calculated for speed higher than 800m/s at 300 meters ) especially 270, 264, 284, etc ....

Have you got suitable 6mm/.243 calibre projectiles?

thanks

 

[EQUADIF68]

@308tikka : yes, we are also considering the .243'' - but as longe range projectile only ( because the lr brings a lot of new performance and added value in this diameter ).
For your information and as I see that the UK shows really a great interest in this new line of advanced projectiles, I'm seriously considering to look at someone for the distribution there.
This could be happening as soon as I get a motivated connaisseur & very professional organization.
Best regards.