Guardian - Golden Eagle Tag found near Grousemoor - who are these idiots ?

[Dan Newcombe]

How did they find the tag - not a fan of conspiracy theories but it’s always strikes me as odd how easily they find these things, in a river this time ...... but never seem to find the bodies of the 75% natural mortality in the first year.

Yes there is an element of bad eggs (Packham has estimated it to be about 100 apparently which is at odd with his previous claim of criminality underpinning the whole industry) but it’s very easy to throw accusations around when no one else sees the data - what’s the old expression about a lie getting half way round the world before the truth gets its trousers on.

There needs to be some common ground reached, unfortunately the antis are so fanatical it will never happen. If the shooting industry gives any ground, they will just end up fighting their battle from that weakened position when the goal posts change - sad really.

 

[jer]

They also live elsewhere and don’t suddenly then disappear, I would like to think shooting is not the cause but the facts appear to show otherwise. This golden eagle spent many months flying round other parts then quickly disappeared on reaching the grouse moor.

And where is the evidence to back up that statement, you have been reading too much RSPB bull shyte and swallowing it. Birds die from many causes and skewed reporting supports the anti brigade. Facts are difficult to come by in this digital world but headlines are presumed to be fact.

 

[Liveonce]

So is away forward to welcome licensing/regulation of dgs then when the raptors continue to disappear we can say told you so it was not us.

 

[Mickeydredd]

And where is the evidence to back up that statement, you have been reading too much RSPB bull shyte and swallowing it. Birds die from many causes and skewed reporting supports the anti brigade. Facts are difficult to come by in this digital world but headlines are presumed to be fact.

There are indeed many reasons that raptors disappear, at a variety of ages of development and fledging and during the juvenile year, these have been proven with technology now available - both around and nowhere near grouse moors. It is interesting that we never hear about very many raptors that die of natural causes in their juvenile year, despite it being very well documented so either they are surprisingly never found or they are not newsworthy.

In this specific case, assuming illegality, it beggars belief that the perpitrator has been so thick as to rely on w_anksock mentality to try to hide the evidence. If they can disappear a bird carcase then it would be very simply to have got rid of the transmitter, not lease by simply putting it in a bag and dumping it in the public refuse bins in the vicinity of where it was dumped in the river.

 

[Liveonce]

And where is the evidence to back up that statement, you have been reading too much RSPB bull shyte and swallowing it. Birds die from many causes and skewed reporting supports the anti brigade. Facts are difficult to come by in this digital world but headlines are presumed to be fact.

Indeed birds do die from many causes, but then the tag would not die with the bird so then both would be found and cause of death established would it not?
Clearly cutting the tags aerial and wrapping it in lead sheeting is an attempt to ensure it is not found.

 

[Apthorpe]

They also live elsewhere and don’t suddenly then disappear, I would like to think shooting is not the cause but the facts appear to show otherwise. This golden eagle spent many months flying round other parts then quickly disappeared on reaching the grouse moor.

You appear to have great difficulty distinguishing facts from hostile allegations. I wonder at your motive

 

[User00025]

I worked and lived on an estate where we had Eagles nesting every year and usually producing two young ( quite unusual most places). The only danger they ever faced was not from two keepers but from the conservation idiots who came to gawk at the nest and tw..s from various organisations who wanted to get up to the nest and ring them. Thank God the boss told them to leave using short jerky movements and play elsewhere. They also had intimations of hospitalisation should they return uninvited anywhere near our class A birds.

 

[User00025]

Indeed birds do die from many causes, but then the tag would not die with the bird so then both would be found and cause of death established would it not?
Clearly cutting the tags aerial and wrapping it in lead sheeting is an attempt to ensure it is not found.

Too much like hard work if you really want to get rid.
Of something, a hammer and a smack, end of story.

 

[CarlW]

There are indeed many reasons that raptors disappear, at a variety of ages of development and fledging and during the juvenile year, these have been proven with technology now available - both around and nowhere near grouse moors. It is interesting that we never hear about very many raptors that die of natural causes in their juvenile year, despite it being very well documented so either they are surprisingly never found or they are not newsworthy.

In this specific case, assuming illegality, it beggars belief that the perpitrator has been so thick as to rely on w_anksock mentality to try to hide the evidence. If they can disappear a bird carcase then it would be very simply to have got rid of the transmitter, not lease by simply putting it in a bag and dumping it in the public refuse bins in the vicinity of where it was dumped in the river.

Unless it was always the intention for the transmitter to be found.

 

[Liveonce]

There are indeed many reasons that raptors disappear, at a variety of ages of development and fledging and during the juvenile year, these have been proven with technology now available - both around and nowhere near grouse moors. It is interesting that we never hear about very many raptors that die of natural causes in their juvenile year, despite it being very well documented so either they are surprisingly never found or they are not newsworthy.

In this specific case, assuming illegality, it beggars belief that the perpitrator has been so thick as to rely on w_anksock mentality to try to hide the evidence. If they can disappear a bird carcase then it would be very simply to have got rid of the transmitter, not lease by simply putting it in a bag and dumping it in the public refuse bins in the vicinity of where it was dumped in the river.

Think just putting the tag in a bag and dumping it in the public refuse bins would still allow for it to transmit its location and hence quickly be found, clearly when a tagged raptor stops transmitting or moving around their are twitters and wildlife officers out their looking for it very quickly.

 

[Liveonce]

Are we really saying the people who want to protect these raptors will kill them and plant evidence such that they can then use it to campaign to regulate or ban dgs? Possible I guess.

 

[riflerob]

I'm disappointed about how some on here appear to be in complete denial about this - questioning if the tag was ever really attached to an eagle in the first place, accusing the antis of finding the naturally dead bird, removing the tag, wrapping it in lead, putting it in a river, to conveniently 'find' it a few years on, sabotaging it all, etc.

It's sadly Trumpian, how some want to twist any reported facts to suit their agenda.
Let's face it, Avery (no matter what you may think of his viewpoints) in his article makes a lot of sense. This goes on a lot, in Scotland particularly, and it needs to stop.

We know full well that keepers have been caught in the act of shooting at raptors (in the case I'm thinking of the picture was viewed in court as not being good enough to confirm ID, I seem to recall), and there was another case a few years ago where a raptor had been caught in a trap and was 'disposed of' - that case, I seem to remember, fell apart because the CCTV had been illegally placed, according to the courts. Both those cases were in Scotland, I think

We need to condemn, utterly, those responsible for this act, or any other raptor persecution, and commit to reporting people responsible for these sorts of acts to the police.
Without a change in attitude, we're no better than the antis or animal rights people in their balaclavas who would tamper with car brakes, tear down pens, or commit their own criminal acts.

 

[riflerob]

Are we really saying the people who want to protect these raptors will kill them and plant evidence such that they can then use it to campaign to regulate or ban dgs? Possible I guess.

Yeah, that's exactly what some are saying.

Nuts, isn't it

 

[Mickeydredd]

Think just putting the tag in a bag and dumping it in the public refuse bins would still allow for it to transmit its location and hence quickly be found, clearly when a tagged raptor stops transmitting or moving around their are twitters and wildlife officers out their looking for it very quickly.

i'm sure it was "de-activated" prior to transporting to the river, so it would not have made any difference going into the bin.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Unless it was always the intention for the transmitter to be found.

Thats why I'm surprised at the choice of disposal, if genuine

 

[Apthorpe]

Are we really saying the people who want to protect these raptors will kill them and plant evidence such that they can then use it to campaign to regulate or ban dgs? Possible I guess.

It's less improbable than RSPB's statements on this incident.
There is actually no evidence that an eagle has died in this incident. And what we're asked to believe by RSPB is extraordinarily far-fetched.

 

[CarlW]

We need to condemn, utterly, those responsible for this act,

We all do. However, we don't know who is responsible. When they catch him or her, I'll happily wield the birch myself.

 

[Orion]

Don’t worry chaps, there soon won’t be any grouse moors to link raptor persecution to if these nutters manage to get them converted to housing estates or monoculture forestry!

 

[Liveonce]

You appear to have great difficulty distinguishing facts from hostile allegations. I wonder at your motive

My motive is if we do have rotten apples among us committing these crimes against raptors they need stopping as clearly it brings the whole of shooting into disrepute and more and more regulation are then likely.
The likes of WJ and Avery are unlikely to give up and walk away and they continue to gain more and more support.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

So is away forward to welcome licensing/regulation of dgs then when the raptors continue to disappear we can say told you so it was not us.

The problem with that is you have licensing which means any breach leads to the license being revoked and suddenly they are ‘finding’ dead raptors which cripples a shoot - it’s far to open to abuse.

I can’t see how they would have happened to have found a lead box in a river a couple of years after it stopped transmitting.

I am also 100% saying that these things are Being planted / fabricated - the people involved are far more infested in stopping shooting than the actual birds. Just look at the hare debacle here recently. Not saying that there aren’t bad guys out there but I’m saying that the reports are suspiciously vague but at the same time conveniently damning.

Somehow an eagle getting blown out to sea was blamed on keepers - who also opened the ‘lead box’ just before dumping it offshore. Now honestly who would take it out on a boat for disposal?