Never had a lot of problems. However my present Constabulary were the first to insist "No med cert no fac". Had a slight problem at first when I moved here, the Feo (ex police) said I could not have two of the same calibre (.222) which I had at the time. Quite happy for me to have a one for one so I got a 25/06 instead. Rather silly but........
FAC Renewal
- Thread starter Broadarrow
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Scapegoat
Well-Known Member
There is RFD point of sale software that already does most of this. The sale generates an email to the relevant AND if appropriate, local force, and prints out an acquisition form for the purchaser to sign and post to their FLD.
It works with the RFD's stock system, yet the hardcopy registers are retained, I suspect, for legacy reasons.
I think the FEO was mostly right in this case although I do think some of the recent additions are pointless such as the GP letter - what does it actually achieve? Also, if you have one centrefire, what does it matter if you had several in reality? If you can securely store the rifles I feel it should be the same as shotguns.
I think the fact that guns appear to be looked on solely as a tool by the police force is an error,for many people it's like a classic car - it has a purpose but is also a collected object, so to say “you have one XXX caliber so you don’t need anything else” is incorrect in my opinion.
regards,
gixer
I think the fact that guns appear to be looked on solely as a tool by the police force is an error,for many people it's like a classic car - it has a purpose but is also a collected object, so to say “you have one XXX caliber so you don’t need anything else” is incorrect in my opinion.
regards,
gixer
Namman
Well-Known Member
Are you an FEO or work in a firearms department by any chance?
Was there not a case where a lawyer / doctor had his certificate revoked as the police knocked on the door and asked to see his guns and his elderly mother obliged do they took them away? Or is that a rural myth?Interesting stat that re revocations. 371 is less than a quarter of a percent of the total number of firearms certificates held in E&W. The 9% increase in the number of revocations represents 0.0194% of E&W certificate holders. So clearly every force is absolutely falling over itself to trap legitimate certificate holders into losing their certificates. Even that absolutely ballooning number of revocations represents 8.6 revocations per force per year.
As for the keys question. Best practice guidance and a condition of your certificate either for shotguns or firearms is that they should be securely stored to prevent access by unauthorised persons. If your answer to your keys question is anything other than "My keys are hidden where only I can find them." then you are not complying with the conditions. Smart-arse answers will not help.
As I did hear that in appeal he got his tickets back as the judge ruled it was not reasonable to expect people to live that closely together and maintain a secret like location of keys?
Scapegoat
Well-Known Member
I was a cop for 30 years, and since retirement have worked in a licensing dept and have also worked for an RFD, hence a wee bit of insider experience.
Scapegoat
Well-Known Member
Don’t know whether it is true or not. We’ve all heard the story though.
Whatever the truth of that is, the only sensible advice is to keep the keys where no unauthorised person can access them. You can throw all the “what-iffs” in the world at it, but it boils down to complying with the condition printed in black and white (well, black on a buff background) on every single certificate for every firearm in the country.
Oh, and a bit more advice. Most cabinet keys are found in the sock drawer. The first place I would look if I was a burglar.
Don’t know whether it is true or not. We’ve all heard the story though.
Whatever the truth of that is, the only sensible advice is to keep the keys where no unauthorised person can access them. You can throw all the “what-iffs” in the world at it, but it boils down to complying with the condition printed in black and white (well, black on a buff background) on every single certificate for every firearm in the country.
Oh, and a bit more advice. Most cabinet keys are found in the sock drawer. The first place I would look if I was a burglar.
decent electronic digital safe that only you know the combination to is the answer, even if it does cost more than the gun cabinet!
Id suggest not doing this. Easily bypassed unless you go for a lock costing more than most people’s guns and scopes together.
8x57
Distinguished Member
A lawyer and It was true.
Including the appeal?
So are most safes with a battery 4” angle grinder
8x57
Distinguished Member
Surprisingly yes, he was successful with his appeal.
It was a long time ago now (late 70s early 80s) so my memory is vague but it was reported in the national papers and in the sporting press at the time.
This is a lot easier than an angle grinder and well known within certain circles. Its why electronic keypads have all but been discontinued at locations requiring high end security, but then you wouldnt know that, would you?
Electronic keypads are a poor security choice. End of.
Scapegoat
Well-Known Member
However, in a domestic setting it's a far better level of security than the sock drawer!
Which is more secure-A) keys are kept in a small safe coach bolted to the wall in the far corner of the kitchen cabinets behind the speciality teas you got for Christmas, and only you know the combination, or
B) In the sock drawer, skilfully tossed between the fawn knee length sandal socks and the cotton rich Argyle ankle socks with the Stag's head logo?
Remember. You are only being asked to take reasonable steps to prevent unauthorised access, you aren't guarding the crown jewels.
So there is case law to support anyone who’s wife knows the whereabouts of the husband’s cabinet keys then
8x57
Distinguished Member
When it comes to security and hiding keys people tend to be quite predictable and I can well believe that the favourite hiding place is in the sock drawer.
Over the years I've had to make entry into many homes and premises and have often found a spare key to the front door "hidden" within 5 or 6 feet of the door, or when inside the key to the back door inside the nearest cupboard or drawer to the door.
It would not surprise me one little bit to find that some shooters store the keys to their gun cabinets within convenient reach of the cabinet, after all most of us are actually quite lazy.
Over the years I've had to make entry into many homes and premises and have often found a spare key to the front door "hidden" within 5 or 6 feet of the door, or when inside the key to the back door inside the nearest cupboard or drawer to the door.
It would not surprise me one little bit to find that some shooters store the keys to their gun cabinets within convenient reach of the cabinet, after all most of us are actually quite lazy.
No I wouldn’t, but I do know what my FEO passed as security which is all that matters, the rest is just internet chatter.
If I ever go away the keys aren’t in the house anyway and if they are determined to get the guns they will.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Yes there is case law but I believe in this case the appeal was based on the confusion of the elderly mother who was persuaded that she was actually assisting the police at the time. It was implied that they may have bullied her into telling that she had discovered the location of the keys.
I'm not sure and may be entirely wrong but I think that Bill Harriman and BASC may have been involved in the appeal.
Would have to look it up I guess
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