Any others cynical about a vaccine?

[Rasputin]

What have the last three posts got to do with vaccines?

Proves we don’t need one to save just the 0.001%. Waste of time and money. Instead of addressing root causes of obesity and general unhealthy living undertaken by most of the civilised world.

DEFINE_ME

Good article in the lancet pays your money and takes your choice about the data.

 

[Fair Hill]

Proves we don’t need one to save just the 0.001%. Waste of time and money. Instead of addressing root causes of obesity and general unhealthy living undertaken by most of the civilised world.

Ohh, that is what they were about.

A waste of time and money, hmmmmm.

Okeydokey, enjoy your Sunday Rasputin, very interesting point of view you've got there.

 

[Rasputin]

Ohh, that is what they were about.

A waste of time and money, hmmmmm.

Okeydokey, enjoy your Sunday Rasputin, very interesting point of view you've got there.

 

[Tazz]

Proves we don’t need one to save just the 0.001%. Waste of time and money. Instead of addressing root causes of obesity and general unhealthy living undertaken by most of the civilised world.

DEFINE_ME

Good article in the lancet pays your money and takes your choice about the data.

I have seen various percentages on how many people die who contract CV19 ranging from 4% through to 0.01 complicted further by the fact that many die from unrelated underlying causes often related to life styles and choices. However we are not going to fix people’s lifestyle/choices in the next 12 months and with a current daily death rate in the U.K. of 400-600 and industry on its knees a vaccine looks like the only positive way out. I will leave all the anti Vac’s and conspiracy theorists to continue their discussions but as soon as an approved vaccine is available I will be getting it with my mum who is 88 ahead of me in the queue

 

[Rasputin]

I have seen various percentages on how many people die who contract CV19 ranging from 4% through to 0.01 complicted further by the fact that many die from unrelated underlying causes often related to life styles and choices. However we are not going to fix people’s lifestyle/choices in the next 12 months and with a current daily death rate in the U.K. of 400-600 and industry on its knees a vaccine looks like the only positive way out. I will leave all the anti Vac’s and conspiracy theorists to continue their discussions but as soon as an approved vaccine is available I will be getting it with my mum who is 88 ahead of me in the queue

Thats fine as someone who is 88 they would absolutely benefit from a safe vaccine.

You say we can’t fix people’s lifestyle choices in 12/18 months well none of us thought they could lock a country down, create a vaccine, furlough half the country and effectively lock people up for breaking rules and keeping their businesses open to fees there families so I am certain if they took that attitude to health and well-being they could make some absolutely massive changes in such a small space of time. Christ reopening gyms is a quick win on that front. Fat tax, sugar tax, fat tax etc all on the cards.

Not to mention caring for dementia patients who seem to skew the data heavily.

 

[FrenchieBoy]

Thats fine as someone who is 88 they would absolutely benefit from a safe vaccine.

You say we can’t fix people’s lifestyle choices in 12/18 months well none of us thought they could lock a country down, create a vaccine, furlough half the country and effectively lock people up for breaking rules and keeping their businesses open to fees there families so I am certain if they took that attitude to health and well-being they could make some absolutely massive changes in such a small space of time. Christ reopening gyms is a quick win on that front. Fat tax, sugar tax, fat tax etc all on the cards.

Not to mention caring for dementia patients who seem to skew the data heavily.

I do hope that you don't put on weight as you get older, which quite often happens to many people regardless of how well they try to take care of their lifestyles and I also hope that none of your nearest and dearest start to suffer from Dementia at any time in their lives! If they did I suspect that your attitude might well change!
You need to remember that you might well get old and need caring for in your latter years and need someone to help you care for yourself!!

 

[Rasputin]

I do hope that you don't put on weight as you get older, which quite often happens to many people regardless of how well they try to take care of their lifestyles and I also hope that none of your nearest and dearest start to suffer from Dementia at any time in their lives! If they did I suspect that your attitude might well change!
You need to remember that you might well get old and need caring for in your latter years and need someone to help you care for yourself!!

Don’t really understand the point of your post perhaps you didn’t like the fact that it points to fundamental flaws that need to be addressed to move forward or maybe you are a bit precious. Who knows.

I doubt I will put on significant weight as neither of my fathers did and my lifestyles is considerably more healthy never mind the fact that I understand I have a personal responsibility to myself to remain as physically active as possible. I can remember chatting to an old mountain guide in the alps who was 80 years old I asked him why he still dragged his backside up treacherous mountains when he didn’t have too. His answer because when you stop the rot sets in and you die...

With the trends for personal health and well being amongst youngsters and the rise of things like veganism there’s likely a societal shift coming towards healthy living. Which is a positive thing in tackling obesity which is a root cause for many illnesses.

As for dementia not sure what the point of that comment was as it’s quite clear the government and many previous has fundamentally failed this particular group of people and hung them out to dry.

 

[Apthorpe]

Proves we don’t need one to save just the 0.001%. Waste of time and money. Instead of addressing root causes of obesity and general unhealthy living undertaken by most of the civilised world.

DEFINE_ME

Good article in the lancet pays your money and takes your choice about the data.

How many times does one idiot have to be told that it's not 0.001%??
It's already killed 100 times more people than that in the UK in under a year. WTF is going on in your head?
Do you really believe the government and families are pretending that thousands of people have died, but actually they're still alive and in hiding???
Jesus wept! For once I hope someone's FLO is reading this forum.

 

[Rasputin]

How many times does one idiot have to be told that it's not 0.001%??
It's already killed 100 times more people than that in the UK in under a year. WTF is going on in your head?
Do you really believe the government and families are pretending that thousands of people have died, but actually they're still alive and in hiding???
Jesus wept! For once I hope someone's FLO is reading this forum.

What planet are you on I never said people haven’t died deaths are irrefutable the cause however can be interpreted differently. The fact is there’s close to 8bn people on the planet and so far just 1.2m deaths inc those with significant underlying conditions that’s about 0.1%

Quite why you feel this would be of interest to an FLO when it’s a discussion about the veracity of the numbers god only knows. Heaven forbid someone has an opinion that you don’t agree with. Sounds kind of dystopian to me.

 

[Tazz]

Thats fine as someone who is 88 they would absolutely benefit from a safe vaccine.

You say we can’t fix people’s lifestyle choices in 12/18 months well none of us thought they could lock a country down, create a vaccine, furlough half the country and effectively lock people up for breaking rules and keeping their businesses open to fees there families so I am certain if they took that attitude to health and well-being they could make some absolutely massive changes in such a small space of time. Christ reopening gyms is a quick win on that front. Fat tax, sugar tax, fat tax etc all on the cards.

Not to mention caring for dementia patients who seem to skew the data heavily.

Also not sure where you get 0.001 % fatality rate. As of yesterday on Worldmeters.com who independently run every countries numbers the U.K. had had 1,493,383 official cases of CV19 and 54626 deaths even if the cases number understates it by a factor of 2 that’s still nowhere near 0.001%

 

[Rasputin]

Also not sure where you get 0.001 % fatality rate. As of yesterday on Worldmeters.com who independently run every countries numbers the U.K. had had 1,493,383 official cases of CV19 and 54626 deaths even if the cases number understates it by a factor of 2 that’s still nowhere near 0.001%

Was talking vs the world as per above post made an edit because I missed a decimal off but regarding the uK that’s still 1.5/3% I’m sure we can agree that’s a really good survival rate for the rest of us.

 

[Tazz]

Was talking vs the world as per above post made an edit because I missed a decimal off but regarding the uK that’s still 1.5/3% I’m sure we can agree that’s a really good survival rate for the rest of us.

While the world numbers may be interesting and alarming most people are concerned about their own country and your 0.001 is both misleading and adds to other false numbers being quoted. You still belittle a potential death rate in the U.K. of 3-1.5% would you fly with an airline that had that fatality level, I very much doubt it

 

[Rasputin]

While the world numbers may be interesting and alarming most people are concerned about their own country and your 0.001 is both misleading and adds to other false numbers being quoted. You still belittle a potential death rate in the U.K. of 3-1.5% would you fly with an airline that had that fatality level, I very much doubt it

To be fair I did change it and it’s a factual assumption when looking back at Covid I’m pretty certain they will say it took x% of the global population whatever x is so hardly misleading. As for belittling it I am doing no such thing merely saying how great it is that 97%+ survive this. Maybe I’m just more positive rather than looking at the negative.

If it proves true that of those who died 90% were chronically ill with an underlying condition then the mortality stats take on very different look at feel to them. We should in theory see less deaths as it’s just sadly accelerated their end of life term.

As for the airline comment I could equally throw that on its head and say if the vaccine is only 95% effective would you fly with an airline that’s only 5% effective?

Whilst the obvious answers is nobody would use the airline I feel it’s pretty irrelevant comparison here.

 

[Tazz]

To be fair I did change it and it’s a factual assumption when looking back at Covid I’m pretty certain they will say it took x% of the global population whatever x is so hardly misleading. As for belittling it I am doing no such thing merely saying how great it is that 97%+ survive this. Maybe I’m just more positive rather than looking at the negative.

If it proves true that of those who died 90% were chronically ill with an underlying condition then the mortality stats take on very different look at feel to them. We should in theory see less deaths as it’s just sadly accelerated their end of life term.

As for the airline comment I could equally throw that on its head and say if the vaccine is only 95% effective would you fly with an airline that’s only 5% effective?

Whilst the obvious answers is nobody would use the airline I feel it’s pretty irrelevant comparison here.

Again in your numbers there is a massive flaw, I quoted that the death rate from CV19 is 3-1.5% and asked if you would fly with an airline that had that fatality number, most would not. You have now quoted that the vaccine only has a 95% success rate and ask me would I fly with an airline with a 5% death rate. The vaccine does not kill anyone!!! It’s the virus that does that, so the maths are 5% of the vaccinated would not be defended against the virus and then of that unprotected 5% 3-1.5% would die that’s an very very very small number

 

[Rasputin]

Again in your numbers there is a massive flaw, I quoted that the death rate from CV19 is 3-1.5% and asked if you would fly with an airline that had that fatality number, most would not. You have now quoted that the vaccine only has a 95% success rate and ask me would I fly with an airline with a 5% death rate. The vaccine does not kill anyone!!! It’s the virus that does that, so the maths are 5% of the vaccinated would not be defended against the virus and then of that unprotected 5% 3-1.5% would die that’s an very very very small number

I totally get your point but I didn’t assume you would die just because you got on the plane just that it’s not effective in getting you what you want to achieve when referencing the vaccine.

My point was it was a poor analogy because that plane if you take in covid terms for my age group is 99.99% safe for older age group it’s 97% would I get on it yes would an older person perhaps not. It’s wrong to assume we’re all equal in this because quite clearly some are affected some are not.

 

[zambezi]

It's already killed 100 times more people than that in the UK in under a year

Correct. As at November mortality ascribed to covid in the U.K. is 0.08% of population.

That makes the U.K. survivability stats approx 99.92%. That they are slightly lower than global average 99.965%, is entirely explainable when our age demographic is factored in.

But overall U.K. mortality in 2020 is only slightly higher than average [12%].

Drilling down into those mortality stats shows the biggest single area of mortality increase is death at home. Lockdown related? Those excluded from access to hospitals? By fear or clinical bar?

 

[Fair Hill]

 

[craig 243]

Can’t help but feel very suspicious of any supposed vaccine for covid.
we don’t have effective vaccines for other corona viruses, at best they limit affects, to bring out vaccinations so swiftly means they can’t have been tested to the N’th degree, side affects can’t be known, but the real cynic in me thinks this is the only way they can reverse the clusterfuk of a situation we are in right now, give everyone a placebo, tell the world it’s fine to resume normality, people continue to die, but instead of everyone being fearful of the dreaded covid, they die of flu, cancer, whatever it may be, but no one is ever declared victim of covid ever again..... the world is saved, and whoever comes up with said vaccine is rich beyond their wildest dreams.
anyone got any tin foil, I’m running low on hats.

Bill gates. Scumbag eugenisist. Not even a doctor. Why the fek anyone listens to him is beyond me.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Well, he makes a lot more sense than you

Bruce

 

[Tazz]

Well, he makes a lot more sense than you

Bruce

In fairness Bruce having read the previous posts, that was not a high bar to get over. Let those that see all this Anti Vac keep their views and I respect that as would Darwin when he came up with what we would now call “Natural Selection” I will be taking the first available vaccine approved in this country