Any others cynical about a vaccine?

[Fair Hill]

'I feel so privileged' - 90-year-old Fermanagh grandmother is first in the world to receive Pfizer coronavirus vaccine

A 90-year-old grandmother born in Enniskillen is first in the world to receive Pfizer coronavirus vaccine

www.independent.ie

 

[Freeforester]

You're cynical by nature, that's cool.

It would be a boring ol' world if we all thought the same.

Better to be a realist than a deluded optimist, but then the naiïvety of many the latter do brighten up the world, to be sure.

 

[xavierdoc]

I had dose 1 of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer/BioNTech) vaccine today. Dose 2 in about 3 weeks.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[alberta boy]

Our government is woefully behind the eight ball . They announced yesterday that they might have 250,000 doses of the Pfiezer vaccine available by Xmas , maybe . They've refused to give out any numbers , or any other information for that matter , about expected delivery times or the amount of vaccine that will be available . It looks like we'll be swinging in the wind until spring . It's going to be a long winter .

AB

 

[zambezi]

Swayne and Baker seem to be the only two Conservative MPs with their feet on the ground:

 

[Fair Hill]

Positive news from The Wall Street Journal....

FDA Says Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine Is Safe, Effective

The FDA concluded in a detailed analysis that the first Covid-19 vaccine being considered for U.S. distribution “met the prescribed success criteria” in a clinical study, suggesting the agency will soon green-light the product.

www.wsj.com

 

[tozzybum]

Here you go first reactors make the news

 

[Rasputin]

Swayne and Baker seem to be the only two Conservative MPs with their feet on the ground:

He speaketh the truth yet no doubt the wetters in society will call him a krank, conspiracy theorist and nut job...

Interesting to see two people went into anaphylactic shock today from the vaccine that in itself probably not that out of the ordinary in the scale of things but Christ could you have imagining if they were driving a car or something when it happened and crashed would have been a media disaster.

 

[bowji john]

All the politicians, their wives and children, and all the lovies known to man lining up for the jab would not change my personal risk assessment one jot.

Would be fascinating to see how far they would go though in their attempt to persuade us all that collective action trumps personal assessment of risk

 

[Klenchblaize]

Cue thread morph into SD conspiracy theory member xx that suggests:
“C-19 vaccine trials rushed and MHRA subject to Government pressure to short-cut sign off procedures”

K

 

[Rewulf]

The second line doesn't follow from the first, and IMO isn't particularly accurate.

The industry does exist to make money - it will therefore produce that which will make it money whether that is to prevent illness (e.g. vaccine), 'cure' it (e.g. anticancer drugs, antibiotics), or to keep it in check long-term (e.g. statins, antipsychotics), Superficially, the last of those categories sounds as though it will make more money, but those things tend to be high-volume and lower margin in the long run - so it ain't neccessarily so, I don't think.

What happened to critical thinking ?
If a business creates a product that never breaks , or never wears out, it wont be 'in business' for very long will it ?
The automobile industry is an excellent example of this.

Likewise , if the pharma industry eradicates a disease, how will it sell the cure/vaccine/treatment for symptoms ?

I know what youre thinking, virus's are too complex, too many mutations, and you could well be right.
The real question is , what did we do before big pharma ?
Did these complex mutational diseases exist then, how did we manage ?

I find it depressing that a group of supposingly rational people are even discussing this. Perhaps the suggestion in this article should be adopted Spreading anti-vaxx myths 'should be made a criminal offence'

I find it depressing how you cant have a discussion about vaccine CHOICE , without being labelled an anti vaxxer , or a flat earther, lizard man believer ect.

 

[Woodsmoke]

I find it depressing how you cant have a discussion about vaccine CHOICE , without being labelled an anti vaxxer , or a flat earther, lizard man believer ect.

Very much so. I don't want this new vaccine. I don't trust it. I don't trust the reasoning behind it, nor do I trust the people telling us about it.

I do, however, hold that properly tested and developed vaccines are instrumental in saving lives and eradicating disease.

 

[Dalua]

What happened to critical thinking ?
If a business creates a product that never breaks , or never wears out, it wont be 'in business' for very long will it ?
The automobile industry is an excellent example of this.

Likewise , if the pharma industry eradicates a disease, how will it sell the cure/vaccine/treatment for symptoms ?

I know what youre thinking, virus's are too complex, too many mutations, and you could well be right.
The real question is , what did we do before big pharma ?
Did these complex mutational diseases exist then, how did we manage ?

I can assure you that you don't know what I'm thinking!

 

[Rewulf]

I can assure you that you don't know what I'm thinking!

Pretty certain I didnt insinuate I did ?

 

[zambezi]

Swayne actually overstated covid mortality by an order of magnitude [he said 1% mortality, its actually 0.1%. And that only if you round it up for the pessimists].

And yet Swayne's argument still stands:

Compulsory vaccination for this disease defies logic. The mortality rate does not justify that approach.

 

[Rewulf]

[he said 1% mortality, its actually 0.1%. And that only if you round it up for the pessimists].

There shouldnt really be any argument for the 0.1 % figure , the government publish it daily.

Nation​

Showing a table of the data

AreaSorted column (descending) - Apply ascending sort.	DeathsUnsorted column	Rate per 100,000 population
Wales	2,756	87.4
Scotland	3,989	73
Northern Ireland	1,085	57.3
England	54,736	97.2

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by area​

Total number of deaths since the start of the pandemic of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations. Only data available for the latest reported date are shown.
Click to display contentNationClick to display contentRegionClick to display contentUpper tier LAClick to display contentAbout

Nation​

Showing a table of the data

AreaSorted column (descending) - Apply ascending sort.	DeathsUnsorted column - Apply ascending sort.	Rate per 100,000 populationUnsorted column - Apply ascending sort.
Wales	3,671	116.4
Scotland	5,634	103.1
Northern Ireland	1,382	73
England	62,438	110.9

 

[enfieldspares]

TUESDAY:
It's perfectly safe. We've done extensive tests.

WEDNESDAY:
Oh....Bugger!

COVID-19 vaccine: UK regulators warn people with history of 'significant' allergic reactions not to have Pfizer/BioNTech jab

Boris Johnson....spaff, blather, spaff....so keen yesterday to boast that of being first with a vaccine....and now this above....

 

[Alistair]

What happened to critical thinking ?
If a business creates a product that never breaks , or never wears out, it wont be 'in business' for very long will it ?
The automobile industry is an excellent example of this.

Likewise , if the pharma industry eradicates a disease, how will it sell the cure/vaccine/treatment for symptoms ?

I know what youre thinking, virus's are too complex, too many mutations, and you could well be right.
The real question is , what did we do before big pharma ?
Did these complex mutational diseases exist then, how did we manage ?

I find it depressing how you cant have a discussion about vaccine CHOICE , without being labelled an anti vaxxer , or a flat earther, lizard man believer ect.

I think that the application of 'critical thinking' in this case would suggest that the pharma industry cannot make a product that never breaks, because their business is people, and as GRR Martin so aptly put 'All men must die'.

If the pharma industry can eradicate a disease, then they will. Because if they don't one of their competitors will and they'll lose market share. You could think that this cuts into their available market, but does it really? You cure a viral disease that kills old people, you can sell them palliative care products for Alzheimers, cancer, heart conditions, broken hips, diabetes, the list goes on. If they die, you can't.

I'd also suggest that the shareholder mandated focus on performance 'right now' as opposed to a longer term strategic approach would further push companies to launch something that's going to be wildly successful now and pump the share price this year, even if it does cannibalize existing sales over a 10 year period.

As for what we did before big pharma. Well, generally, we died. A bit earlier than we do now too.

But as long as people continue to die, they'll die for 'reasons' and the pharma industry will remain relevant. For every cause of death they solve, another one pops up and the longer they can keep people alive, and ideally miserable, the more money they can make. That puts a rather different spin on the focus of the medical and pharma industries on keeping people alive at all costs, instead of focussing on maximising quality of life, I'd say...

 

[Woodsmoke]

COVID-19 vaccine: UK regulators warn people with history of 'significant' allergic reactions not to have Pfizer/BioNTech jab

That's exactly it though, isn't it? Allergic to WHAT, exactly? Cat hair? Mushrooms? Susan Boyle?

 

[Fair Hill]

That's exactly it though, isn't it? Allergic to WHAT, exactly? Cat hair? Mushrooms? Susan Boyle?

Somehow don't think any of those things would be in the vaccine.