Any others cynical about a vaccine?

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norma 308 said:
It’s taken me most of the week to get over the flu 😷 jab 😳
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That’s why I don’t have it anymore. Used to absolutely clatter me. Found out yesterday that if your allergic to eggs apparently the flu jab can give you an allergic reaction. Would never have thought that but hey ho.
 
Fair Hill said:
The vaccine works, that's a fact.

If you had Covid already it does not mean that you cannot catch it again.

It is a fact that people have had the virus, fully recovered, tested negative and later showed symptoms and tested positive again.
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This is quite true, there have been cases where a person has had Covid, recovered and then tested positive with Covid a second time. Here is one report (Admittedly by the BBC and the man had other health problems) which shows that it can happen:
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid reinfection: Man gets Covid twice and second hit 'more severe'

The report raises questions about how much immunity can be built up to the virus and how long it may last.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Alistair said:
But if this suggestion (that the vaccine works) is true, then having previously been infected will also offer the same protection, so there's no value in getting vaccinated and the dose you did take could have offered someone else the protection that you already possess.
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That is the bottom line right there.
 
FrenchieBoy said:
This is quite true, there have been cases where a person has had Covid, recovered and then tested positive with Covid a second time. Here is one report (Admittedly by the BBC and the man had other health problems) which shows that it can happen:
Click to expand...

I am 100% sure you can test positive several times in a year, every year. And in any year ahead of 2020.

How many have been ill more than once? [BIG difference between ill and +ve test] That number is very small.

Like all endemic viruses, you will cop a dose each seasonal peak. Do you succumb to seasonal viruses every year? No. Why? You have developed some immunity.

U.K. govt data [REACH] declares that 2003 SARs survivors have immunity from 2003 SARs and 2020 covid because of immunity garnered 17 years ago. Naturally acquired immunity is longlived.
 
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Alistair said:
As the authors say "Until widespread immunity halts the spread of SARS-CoV-2,
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That, surely, is merely a restatement of the age old wisdom of naturally acquired herd-immunity being the end game for viral pandemics.

Vaccine interventions, particularly those which provoke short-lived antigen response, are stop-gap tactical interventions.

The long game looks a lot more like the Swedish model.
 
zambezi said:
I am 100% sure you can test positive several times in a year, every year. And in any year ahead of 2020.

How many have been ill more than once? [BIG difference between ill and +ve test] That number is very small.

Like all endemic viruses, you will cop a dose each seasonal peak. Do you succumb to seasonal viruses every year? No. Why? You have developed some immunity.

U.K. govt data [REACH] declares that 2003 SARs survivors have immunity from 2003 SARs and 2020 covid because of immunity garnered 17 years ago. Naturally acquired immunity is longlived.
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Maybe you are right, you are always able to come up with facts, figures and graphs to show that you think you know what you are talking about!
I am going by the time line where the man in the article tested positive in April, he then tested negative TWICE in May and on the 5th of june he tested POSITIVE again. I posted this to show that even after you have had Covid once that does not necessarily give you immunity from the virus.
Please study the timeline and note: He did not just "feel ill", he actually tested POSITIVE TWICE with NEGATIVE TEST RESULTS in between!
  • 25 March - First wave of symptoms, including sore throat, cough, headache, nausea and diarrhoea
  • 18 April - He tests positive for the first time
  • 27 April - Initial symptoms fully resolve
  • 9 and 26 May - He tests negative for the virus on two occasions
  • 28 May - He develops symptoms again, this time including fever, headache, dizziness, cough, nausea and diarrhoea
  • 5 June - He tests positive for the second time, and is hypoxic (low blood oxygen) with shortness of breath
I'm not going to bother getting into any further discussion with you over this as you will no doubt do your usual and try to Google a load of facts, figures and graphs to plaster up in front of me and I simply can not be bothered with that!
 
The Swedish model was designed for the Swedish people who by nature are a lot more compliant than most other nationalities, while a lock down was avoided for as long as possible this was possible because the people have a high level of trust in and followed government advice eg. vulnerable and elderly people isolated when they were advised to do so, there were no gatherings of more than 50, people travelled a lot less and observed social distancing. This isn't going to work in the vast majority of countries on a voluntary basis. Sweden's population density was also a big factor in keeping numbers low and their employment conditions and health care system is way ahead of most other countries.

The New Zealand "Zero Covid" model is far more likely to succeed in most countries, they have done incredibly well, kept the number of deaths way down and have started to open up the economy again.
 
FrenchieBoy said:
  • 25 March - First wave of symptoms, including sore throat, cough, headache, nausea and diarrhoea
  • 18 April - He tests positive for the first time
  • 27 April - Initial symptoms fully resolve
  • 9 and 26 May - He tests negative for the virus on two occasions
  • 28 May - He develops symptoms again, this time including fever, headache, dizziness, cough, nausea and diarrhoea
  • 5 June - He tests positive for the second time, and is hypoxic (low blood oxygen) with shortness of breath
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A false positive test on the 18 April for covid would explain everything would it not ?
Maybe he had something different in March?
Either that , or hes an extremely unlucky man !
 
Namman said:
I will be rolling my sleeve up as soon as my turn comes.
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This is the crux of the matter.
You will be exercising your free choice to have the vaccine, and by the sounds of it, very happy with that choice.

But what about the free choice of those who , for whatever reason, choose not to have it ?
There is already talk of airlines not allowing non vaccinated passenger on board, where do you suppose that will lead ...?

What if the shoe was on the other foot, what if you were told you couldnt have the vaccine, because your age or other health condition made you unworthy of 'wasting' a shot on you ?

No one gets forced to have a flu jab (yet) , but thats also highly infectious , and kills 10s of 1000s a year in this country ?
TB kills 1.5 million a year worldwide , EVERY year , where is the drive to eradicate TB ? Malaria, and a host of other deadly diseases ?

Its not a case of everyone who feels uncomfortable with the covid vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing nutter.
But government and media are already starting to single out and condemn those that question.
And that, is dangerous for everyone.
 
I will also be exercising my free choice and will be rolling up my sleeve to get both doses of the vaccine.
Private companies such as airlines can also exercise their right to refuse to fly people who have not been vaccinated, but in practical terms that's going to be difficult because how do they differentiate between someone who has not yet been offered the vaccine and someone who has refused the vaccine.
At the moment, it does not appear that any proof of vaccination will be provided by the NHS, so the point is moot

Cheers

Bruce
 
Rewulf said:
This is the crux of the matter.
You will be exercising your free choice to have the vaccine, and by the sounds of it, very happy with that choice.

But what about the free choice of those who , for whatever reason, choose not to have it ?
There is already talk of airlines not allowing non vaccinated passenger on board, where do you suppose that will lead ...?

What if the shoe was on the other foot, what if you were told you couldnt have the vaccine, because your age or other health condition made you unworthy of 'wasting' a shot on you ?

No one gets forced to have a flu jab (yet) , but thats also highly infectious , and kills 10s of 1000s a year in this country ?
TB kills 1.5 million a year worldwide , EVERY year , where is the drive to eradicate TB ? Malaria, and a host of other deadly diseases ?

Its not a case of everyone who feels uncomfortable with the covid vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing nutter.
But government and media are already starting to single out and condemn those that question.
And that, is dangerous for everyone.
Click to expand...
I am not going to get drawn into a discussion on this topic. You are correct no one is being forced to have the flu jab but more and more of the population are being offered it.
As I see it, it is not the mortality of Covid. that makes it more dangerous than the flu but it is in the number of hospitalisations (average 3 weeks) that is the issue. When the NHS is overwhelmed other treatable conditions some of which will end up being fatal will markedly increase.
Pardon me but I thought there was a drive to eradicate TB and Malaria. Smallpox has been eradicated and Polio nearly so. All done by vaccines, not to mention all the other once serious infections which we don't see anymore.
As for me I want to get back to normality, to resume normal life with my family.
Who said anything about not having the vaccine because of age etc?
If you don't want the vaccine , fine , its your choice and then you can rely on all those who do have it, protecting you.
 
 
 
Rewulf said:
This is the crux of the matter.
You will be exercising your free choice to have the vaccine, and by the sounds of it, very happy with that choice.

But what about the free choice of those who , for whatever reason, choose not to have it ?
There is already talk of airlines not allowing non vaccinated passenger on board, where do you suppose that will lead ...?

What if the shoe was on the other foot, what if you were told you couldnt have the vaccine, because your age or other health condition made you unworthy of 'wasting' a shot on you ?

No one gets forced to have a flu jab (yet) , but thats also highly infectious , and kills 10s of 1000s a year in this country ?
TB kills 1.5 million a year worldwide , EVERY year , where is the drive to eradicate TB ? Malaria, and a host of other deadly diseases ?

Its not a case of everyone who feels uncomfortable with the covid vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing nutter.
But government and media are already starting to single out and condemn those that question.
And that, is dangerous for everyone.
Click to expand...


Free will is dead haven’t you heard 😂
 
Rasputin said:
He’s also crippled a few poor kids and their families along the way. A saint he is not it’s just purely business with the Gates as it is for all billionaires.
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You take cynicism to new levels with your refusal to acknowledge incredible charitable works by a successful individual and your tar them all with the same brush attitude towards other very successful business people.

Believe it or not there are some very good people in this world that also happen to have made a lot of money along the way.
 
Fair Hill said:
You take cynicism to new levels with your refusal to acknowledge incredible charitable works by a successful individual and your tar them all with the same brush attitude towards other very successful business people.

Believe it or not there are some very good people in this world that also happen to have made a lot of money along the way.
Click to expand...
So true. Well said.
 
Fair Hill said:
Believe it or not there are some very good people in this world that also happen to have made a lot of money along the way.
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There is , its just Mr Gates isnt one of them.

Bill Gates/Net worth

118.8 billion USD
2020
53 billion USD
2010

In 10 years , hes doubled his net worth.
Whatever hes 'given' away , hes not given away much of his personal fortune.


https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwj10bvX-cPtAhWDi1wKHea5BMUQxA0wA3oECAQQBA

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwj10bvX-cPtAhWDi1wKHea5BMUQxA0wA3oECAQQBg

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwj10bvX-cPtAhWDi1wKHea5BMUQxA0wA3oECAQQCA
 
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