EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[User00025]

All this talk about lead/non lead, just because a ban is coming. Supported by most of our organisations. We have had so many restrictions over the years it's laughable and not many see the end vision yet.
I remember seeing an excerpt from the Conservative policy years ago to remove firearms from public ownership and it ain't rocket science to see it coming.
Where were all our wonderful organisations when people were accusing me of rocking the boat over the following, totally absent that's where.
1. Gun licence 10/- from post office. Changed to white card certificate.
2. White card cert changed to full SGC listing all guns.
3. FAC easy to get if you had a bit to shoot over.
4. Change to specific firearms, visits and checks on security.
5. Limits on firearms and now approving land, together with medical reports.
All that in less than sixty years and has any of it reduced crime, has it bo....KS. So glad that I won't see the end result, rant over.

 

[kes]

It simply needs someone with shooting interests at heart to push back hard - via the legal system.
It does however seem that quite a few of the orgs have ended up sacrificing their members interests in the hope of a rapprochement and better treatment from the police.
As 4th horse says, its not rocket science to have worked out where this was going, without any national justification.
No political party has mentioned - ever - an intention in the Queen's speech, never mind an adopted policy i.e. a Bill through the Commons.
When you criminalise gun ownership, only the criminals have guns

 

[sh1kar]

Here's your choice. Gold looks a good fit.

View attachment 193597

Hmm I think you are looking for a silver bullet there Carl

S

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Many people would reasonably hold the opinion that BASC is itself guilty of the populism you describe. The facts are that in 2015, there was not sufficient scientific evidence to justify a ban on lead shot, and that in the intervening period between that point and when BASC decided to completely reverse its position no new evidence was published that could possibly be construed as sufficient to justify that reversal.

It seems far more likely that your policy development was driven by the pressure of external populists not science. After all, you've stated in this very post that the problem is that the "wolf is at the door", and the proposed restrictions are disproportionate and unsubstantiated. You can hardly criticise shooters and members for being "populist" and not agreeing with BASC's position, given that it's abundantly clear that science is not leading these developments, ignorance is.

Thanks - you are indeed touching on the complex mix of science, research, evidence, politics and conjecture regarding policy development on lead ammunition worldwide - this is not a phenomenon unique to the UK nor unique to lead ammunition.

Given your views and insights would you be interested in attending one of BASC's sustainable ammunition days? Hopefully we will be running more events soon and it would be an opportunity to try out some non-lead loads and have some face to face discussion with BASC staff, coaches and fellow participants on your views. You could then report back on your findings to this forum.

For some background on what's involved see:

Try BASC’s sustainable ammunition days

Dr Peter Marshall, BASC's head of training and education, writes about the new sustainable ammunition days and the recent trial event that took place.

basc.org.uk

For more general information see:

Ammunition - BASC

Ammunition Read all of our latest advice and guidance on ammunition, whatever your chosen shooting discipline. Shotgun Rifle Airgun Lead ammunition restriction proposals The Heath and Safety Executive published the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition on 6 May. The document outlines...

basc.org.uk

 

[kes]

Utterly amazing response.
Arrogance, ignorance, genuine denial of the point and so on - its not worth the comment really - this is par for the course.

 

[Liveonce]

All this talk about lead/non lead, just because a ban is coming. Supported by most of our organisations. We have had so many restrictions over the years it's laughable and not many see the end vision yet.
I remember seeing an excerpt from the Conservative policy years ago to remove firearms from public ownership and it ain't rocket science to see it coming.
Where were all our wonderful organisations when people were accusing me of rocking the boat over the following, totally absent that's where.
1. Gun licence 10/- from post office. Changed to white card certificate.
2. White card cert changed to full SGC listing all guns.
3. FAC easy to get if you had a bit to shoot over.
4. Change to specific firearms, visits and checks on security.
5. Limits on firearms and now approving land, together with medical reports.
All that in less than sixty years and has any of it reduced crime, has it bo....KS. So glad that I won't see the end result, rant over.

You forgot the pistol ban, the semi auto centerfire rifle ban, changes to deactivated firearms, changes to obsolete weapons, airgun licensing in Scotland.

The the current rubbish to restrict air guns by young people, restrict reloading components ...... and on and on

Enjoy what you can why you can.

 

[kes]

This perhaps the place to mention this extract from the last BASC AGM minutes; Celtic Manor)

Yes, there has been a small dip in membership, but we have also seen new members who agree this demonstrates true leadership and will help secure shooting’s future.

BASC's view of the effect on membership of its stance on a voluntary lead ban . Myopic, self justifying and untrue (small, secure shootings future, ignoring medicals) .........

Also in December 2020;

How many members does BASC have? BASC has a membership of over 150,000 according to the latest membership statistics in December 2020. So an incredibly small dip then - entirely credible given the above ?!?!

 

[User00025]

You forgot the pistol ban, the semi auto centerfire rifle ban, changes to deactivated firearms, changes to obsolete weapons, airgun licensing in Scotland.

The the current rubbish to restrict air guns by young people, restrict reloading components ...... and on and on

Enjoy what you can why you can.

Yep!! Dementia is definitely setting in.

 

[palmer_mike]

Thanks - you are indeed touching on the complex mix of science, research, evidence, politics and conjecture regarding policy development on lead ammunition worldwide - this is not a phenomenon unique to the UK nor unique to lead ammunition.

Given your views and insights would you be interested in attending one of BASC's sustainable ammunition days? Hopefully we will be running more events soon and it would be an opportunity to try out some non-lead loads and have some face to face discussion with BASC staff, coaches and fellow participants on your views. You could then report back on your findings to this forum.

For some background on what's involved see:

Try BASC’s sustainable ammunition days

Dr Peter Marshall, BASC's head of training and education, writes about the new sustainable ammunition days and the recent trial event that took place.

basc.org.uk

For more general information see:

Ammunition - BASC

Ammunition Read all of our latest advice and guidance on ammunition, whatever your chosen shooting discipline. Shotgun Rifle Airgun Lead ammunition restriction proposals The Heath and Safety Executive published the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition on 6 May. The document outlines...

basc.org.uk

Hi Connor,
I would be very interested in attending one of your sustainable ammunition days with a muzzle loading black powder rifle. Would you please confirm that you would be providing ammunition suitable for use in my rifle!
All the best
Mike

 

[Liveonce]

Hi Connor,
I would be very interested in attending one of your sustainable ammunition days with a muzzle loading black powder rifle. Would you please confirm that you would be providing ammunition suitable for use in my rifle!
All the best
Mike

Oh that’s easy 1kg of bismuth shot for you sir.

Now ask for them to provide a steel shot cartridge with biodegradable plastic wad for your .410 or 28ga.

 

[palmer_mike]

Oh that’s easy 1kg of bismuth shot for you sir.

Now ask for them to provide a steel shot cartridge with biodegradable plastic wad for your .410 or 28ga.

Would I be able to obtain .50 bismuth bullets for my muzzle loader? Or is bismuth smeltable (is that a word?) in a lead pot?

 

[StephenToast]

I saw an episode

Would I be able to obtain .50 bismuth bullets for my muzzle loader? Or is bismuth smeltable (is that a word?) in a lead pot?

of meateater where they were shooting Sika with muzzleloaders. I think they were using non-lead ammo in that so it must exist.

Or it was a dream.

 

[palmer_mike]

I saw an episode

of meateater where they were shooting Sika with muzzleloaders. I think they were using non-lead ammo in that so it must exist.

Or it was a dream.

No idea, I’m coming up blank.....

 

[palmer_mike]

Oh that’s easy 1kg of bismuth shot for you sir.

Now ask for them to provide a steel shot cartridge with biodegradable plastic wad for your .410 or 28ga.

Bismuth is harder than pure lead so I’d probably not be able to push the Bullets down the barrel, on the other hand it has a lower melting point so I’d probably be able to cast bullets from it (if I could afford to lol)

 

[StephenToast]

No idea, I’m coming up blank.....

Barnes I think they were.

 

[Liveonce]

Would I be able to obtain .50 bismuth bullets for my muzzle loader? Or is bismuth smeltable (is that a word?) in a lead pot?

Yes bismuth can be cast and melted at low temperature just like lead. Add about 5% tin as otherwise pure bismuth is very brittle. Only big down side is cost, bismuth is not cheap.

 

[StephenToast]

Barnes TMZ I can find through Google.

Although the guns they were using were modern muzzleloaders rather than historic. Not sure if that makes a difference?

 

[palmer_mike]

I saw an episode

of meateater where they were shooting Sika with muzzleloaders. I think they were using non-lead ammo in that so it must exist.

Or it was a dream.

Ok, I’ve rewatched the episode and the answer is a little technical...

steve rinella is using a modern ‘inline’ muzzle loader with a fast twist barrel firing a bullet contained in a plastic sabot. These rifles aren’t really traditional muzzleloader by any stretch of the imagination, they’re simply a way of making the use of a modern scopes rifle legal within muzzleloader season.

In most antique firearms it would not b possible to stabilise a sabot bullet.

There are some modern reproductions of traditional muzzleloader rifles with faster twist barrels that may be able to shoot sabot bullets, but it’s definitely not the majority by any stretch of the imagination.....

 

[StephenToast]

Pity. I thought I might have helped then.

 

[palmer_mike]

Pity. I thought I might have helped then.

It might help me if I get a fast twist repro rifle when my variation comes back......

not so much anyone who’s got a rifle
already