EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

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In the old vintage rifles that take a leather or paper patch has aybody actually tried a bullet made from non toxic solder or similar or even a copper bullet. Your bullet is held in a paper / leather sabot, just like in modern muzzle loader with a plastic sabot?
 
25 Sharps said:
You really are spouting nonsense!

At want point have I said HMR doesn't ricochet? I had one for a year and a half and part of the reason I got rid of it was the amount of audible ricochets I was getting compared to the previous WMR I had owned, I have said above that disruption of a bullet cannot be relied upon.

But you have chosen to ignore the 2 direct questions I have put to you above because you know the answers contradict your incorrect standpoint. I shoot a a lot of high velocity ammo in the field, I am very, very careful with angles of shot and backstop (enough to drive one shooting buddy to distraction with the shots I pass up!) so I am very aware of how bullets behave, I have skinned fixes before now to see how bullets perform.

As for your cardboard test that is nonsense, unless you physically catch the bullet after it has bounced there is no way you can prove that bullet has held together and has ricocheted, damage to a piece of card could be caused any a piece of lead or jacket or even dirt or stone kicked up by the bullet. The only exception being if it keyholes and you get a nice bullet shape outline but this would mean the bullet is tumbling and by your own admission bleeding energy very quickly.

But feel free to post a video and photo's of your test to prove me wrong.

(Oh and if anyone is a flat earther with an idea in their head on this thread it is you!)
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There is nothing in my actual words I will not stand behind, if you read exactly what is written and don't add and subtract and ignore context
The only thing that has zero ricochet potential is a bullet that remains inside the intended target or the backdrop
Backstop and backdrop are hence equally important
Nice day for a bit of load development today got a decent enough backstop but the backdrop is a field of pregnant ewes presently so screw that idea , I only need to find a hidden lump of rock to have said potential.

Strange I never had a single audible ricochet with my hmr of old I had a few inaudible ones though , have also has a inaudible ricochet from a 140 grain 7 mm , if it wasn't for a roosertail of dew lifting on the next field I would ner have known it occurred unless it connected with something . Calibre isn't much of a mitigation energy can be in the correct circumstances
 
Bowland blades said:
There is nothing in my actual words I will not stand behind, if you read exactly what is written and don't add and subtract and ignore context
The only thing that has zero ricochet potential is a bullet that remains inside the intended target or the backdrop
Backstop and backdrop are hence equally important
Nice day for a bit of load development today got a decent enough backstop but the backdrop is a field of pregnant ewes presently so screw that idea , I only need to find a hidden lump of rock to have said potential.

Strange I never had a single audible ricochet with my hmr of old I had a few inaudible ones though , have also has a inaudible ricochet from a 140 grain 7 mm , if it wasn't for a roosertail of dew lifting on the next field I would ner have known it occurred unless it connected with something . Calibre isn't much of a mitigation energy can be in the correct circumstances
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So are you going to post a video or photo's of your definitive HMR ricochet testing?
 
palmer_mike said:
Hi Connor,
I would be very interested in attending one of your sustainable ammunition days with a muzzle loading black powder rifle. Would you please confirm that you would be providing ammunition suitable for use in my rifle!
All the best
Mike
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Hi Mike,

The voluntary transition away from lead ammunition in the UK is for lead shot for live quarry shooting. The shotgun cartridges provided on BASC’s sustainable ammunition days last year were mainly Eley VIP Pro Eco wad, BioAmmo Rex Steel and Jocker Bio Sport Competition.

A diversity of options for plastic-free and non-lead ammunition will continue to be innovated.

The development of new products has seen a surge in enquiries about non-lead shot from BASC members and our regional teams are reporting more and more discussions about non-lead alternatives.

In a recent BASC membership survey, 70% of respondents stated “phasing out the use of lead and plastic shotgun ammunition” as either very or somewhat important.

The OP was about the the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) proposals for a near-total ban on the sale and use of lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles.

For a FACE briefing on the proposals see:

www.face.eu

Ban on lead in ammunition proposed

Today, the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) has published its proposal for further EU (and EEA)-wide restrictions on the use of lead in ammunition for hunting, outdoor sports shooting and fishing.
www.face.eu www.face.eu
 
Given that the driver behind this proposal is the environmental and human health issues, why are military and non-civilian uses of lead ammunition not included? ..... is military lead less harmful than non-military lead? (....apart from the obvious.....!!)
 
merlin said:
Given that the driver behind this proposal is the environmental and human health issues, why are military and non-civilian uses of lead ammunition not included? ..... is military lead less harmful than non-military lead? (....apart from the obvious.....!!)
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very good point well made. dont do as i do do as i say springs too mind.
 
merlin said:
Given that the driver behind this proposal is the environmental and human health issues, why are military and non-civilian uses of lead ammunition not included? ..... is military lead less harmful than non-military lead? (....apart from the obvious.....!!)
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Because the driver is banning shooting and private firearms ownership by making things difficult for us , just many are too simple to see it
 
Perhpas it would be good to tackle lead in foodstuffs, other than shot game/venison. Banning Frech production from wartime trench sites/battlegrounds might make me, for one, feel there is overall coverage even if it is stupid in the extreme.
 
gerarddwatts said:
Absolutely correct.

So a voluntary and managed move away from the use of lead will remove that tool from their armoury. Just that many are too simple to see it.
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Ah I see so what about the next threat where there is no move away ? Give up then too ? Many are too simple to see this and think if we just keep giving up it’ll keep the antis happy
Kind of like showing up to your house on fire and the fireman saying don’t worry we’re not putting it out it only wants to burn the kitchen , then “ don’t worry it only wants the hallway “ etc etc
 
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