Game dealer not accepting lead shot carcasses
- Thread starter imnotrucknut
- Start date
If you give up smoking, red meat, lead ammunition, wine, women and song will you live any longer?Copper evangelists are worse than ex smokers !
No...it just feels like it.
Alan
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Definitely not the case in my experience .
Over a period of 25 years plus I managed to collect a jar and a half of bullet fragments, jackets and bits of core, all of them designed for game shooting. The majority were 130gr .270 of pretty much all varieties including Nosler solid base.
Most bullets shed the core but there were a fair few mushrooms and a lot of them ended up balled under the skin on the off side.
Upping bullet weight to 140gr gives nearly 100% pass through.
Most of the shots were to the neck.
Do me a favour quote the post where I said a gut shot deer would die more quickly with lead?Lead is going to work when it is in the right place. When either are in the wrong place there are too many variables to claim superiority by simple definition of "wrong place". If lead is in the "wrong place" it is not going to kill quickly, otherwise it would not be the wrong place?
They both work in the right place. Why should only one work less effectively in the wrong place? Is the liver more or less susceptible to being shredded by either, any more than the heart is?
Your claim that a deer gut shot by lead will die quicker is not a given. It seems to ignore any variable in which organs were hit, which would have a much greater affect on the length of the sorry process than whether the liver was shredded by copper or lead.
You have reverted to the belief fostered by Nathan () that the lead particle model of energy transfer is invariably more effective and thus provides a safety net for a poor hit. It is conjecture. It is where you and I started in this thread, the difference in lethality between shedding weight or shedding energy. I disagree with the belief that it is only possible by particle dispersion, and so does the ballistic soap. Let alone that the experience of the actual users on here bears this out.
If it were true that gut shot deer always dropped on the spot with lead core bullets there would be a logic for the argument, but they don't.
If every chest shot deer dropped on the spot with lead core bullets with no flight, but they don't.
If there was evidence rather than conjecture that there will be more runners with copper then there would be a reason for this belief. The actual experience of those posting on here (and my own) using lead-free is that it does not produce more runners.
Alan
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As I said to Norfolk deer, read my first couple of posts on the thread and all the others, my concern is not shooting deer it’s the other branches of shooting that will suffer.
I think I am done as people don’t seem to be able to actually read what I am saying and are now saying I’ve said things I’ve not said.
Let’s face it, you speak
same as experienced deer stalkers then !!
here...
You did not specify quicker than lead free, and in order to follow your phrasing, neither did I in my response.
I understood from the context of the dialogue that you were referring to a quicker death than if shot by a lead free round in the same sub optimal place...which is what I responded to and disputed.
My apologies if you meant something different.
If you did mean something different...what did you mean?
Alan
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Sub optimal does not equate to gut shot, it’s high lung or liver, gut shot is a complete balls up not sub optimal. Both high lung or liver I suspect a cup and core bullet would do more damage and lead to a quicker demise.
This thread actually has me genuinely considering leaving SD as stalkers seem to only give a damn about stalking and I’m a shooter not a just stalker.
I don’t sell to game dealers other than hares when we cull those, until lead is legally banned I won’t be affected. My hope is they see common sense and ban the importation of any new bullets as they did with reach affected powders. That way RFDs won’t be left with millions of rounds that suddenly have no value.
Half of me hopes the arse falls out of the venison export market anyway, as I suspect it will ......
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
An honest question here, not trying to deliberately stir althou only need to mention blasers as best calIbre to get all the holy grail off 'hot' topics in 1 post
So how does copper cope with either head/brain or neck shooting???
If slow to expand and good for extra penetration that could well not be so ideal for those type of shots where even with lead bullet more frangible bullets are often used.
So how does copper cope with either head/brain or neck shooting???
If slow to expand and good for extra penetration that could well not be so ideal for those type of shots where even with lead bullet more frangible bullets are often used.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Hit the head or neck in the right place the deer hits the deck no different from lead, that bullet hits bone it’s going to expand. Big hole on last nights muntjac
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Ah okay, sorry I missed that distinction, and wasn't aware of those definitions.
I was focussing on the type of energy transfer of the bullet rather than the "wrong place" wound position.
That is what I was disputing...you and Nathan have arrived at a different conclusion.
Alan
An honest question here, not trying to deliberately stir althou only need to mention blasers as best calIbre to get all the holy grail off 'hot' topics in 1 post
They cope just fine ......in fact they are often very dramatic. Let me know if you want a picture emailing but I won’t post it here
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
No that's ok I'll take ur word for it.
Just as someone who's never used copper u could see it being the worst possible scenerio for deer welfare, game dealers pushing for head shot deer, a bullet possibly not as accurate and slower to expand. ( If u believed all the rumours about copper)
But there must be a big difference if u compared It to the likes of a BT when it comes to expansion.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
The lack of concern of the impact on other types of shooting genuinely upsets meHold the line soldier, we've got these copper fruits on the run
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
This 100%
But the copper chaps never head shoot, and only do perfect heart shots
Ask the lads who are killing high hundreds of deer, the ghillies and contractors what's better, ask the rangers what they use in their own rifles.
Fkn lead.
No that's ok I'll take ur word for it.
Just as someone who's never used copper u could see it being the worst possible scenerio for deer welfare, game dealers pushing for head shot deer, a bullet possibly not as accurate and slower to expand. ( If u believed all the rumours about copper)
But there must be a big difference if u compared It to the likes of a BT when it comes to expansion.
I can’t compare to lead core as I have only neck shot with mono metal. And only a few with that when needs must. I am not sure if lead core could do any better than the GMX and TTSX I have used on both Roe and Fallow bucks and does. A very small sample, but FWIW each time there has only been skin and soft tissues left attaching the head. The neck/vertebrae were completely severed.
Alan
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Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Like Ranger22? He spoke very highly of his experience of over 1500 deer shot with copper back in 2014. I don't know how many he has accounted for now 7 years further on...
Lead free (copper) bullets
just my 2p ( i have been shooting copper ammo for 2 years) If you want good results go down at least 20% bullet weight, ie if you shoot 150gr 308,in copper use 130gr Andy7mm
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
Alan
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