UK REACH lead ammunition review announced
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
If a ban does come the lack of civilian access will put a dent in their income unless they can lobby for lead on open air ranges or adjust their range rules/criteria to allow for lead free...surely they can't just be sitting back and ignoring it?
The focus of any lobbying to use lead core bullets should be on the things which can be readily defended like clay schools, range target berms and backdrops.
Although I am a member of the indoor tunnel range at Monmouth, I will ask the chairman what we are doing [can do] as a club to support the open air ranges we sometimes visit.
Alan
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Who? NRA? Got about as much clout as feather duster.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
@Sharpie BASC will be part of a multi-organisational response submitted to the latest ECHA lead ammunition public consultation - there will be a FACE UK response and a BSSC response. The responses will cover the impacts of the proposals on all types of lead ammunition. When the recently announced UK review begins BASC will engage in that and that will encompass all types of lead ammunition. There is also a consultation running on proposals for a revised UK woodland assurance standard - the revised standard includes the proposed clause "Non-toxic ammunition is used in the management of wild deer. Use of non-toxic ammunition will eliminate lead contamination of venison and venison-based food products and the diffuse pollution of lead into the wider environment." BASC will be responding to the consultation.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
How exactly has FACE "sold out on the policy of lead"?
Oh the shenanigans at Bisley. Where to start ?
The NRA is just one part of it, though they have weaselled there way into HO club shooting with their competency cards, safe shooting stuff, etc. Actually quite a burden on decent clubs, who don't actually need any of this stuff, but are browbeaten into it so must pay the NRA tax. for every member. Resistance appears to be, futile.
I don't expect that they are switched on about any of this. No more so than BASC, and the others. Too busy arguing amongst themselves, or backslapping each other for doing a fine job.
For a jaundiced commentary on just how disfunctional the whole Bisley, NRA, and wider, situation is, you could take a look at NRA Members - Bisley Sporting Group
OK. I hear you. Pretty much what I expected. Just a tip, all that old fashioned management speak, such as "multi-organisational, consultation, impacts, engage, encompass, assurance standard, and so on, just ring false. Try speaking plain language.
I'm sorry but all this talk about multi-organisational coordinated responses, and uncoordinated ones, from e.g. FACE UK and BSSC (who are they) does not inspire me with confidence. Chatter amongst yourselves by all means, set up committees to review, maybe even meet once month if quorate, pass it up to all those organisations varied leaderships and committees, more delay, discuss again, revise, repeat. Meanwhile the world is passing you by, rapidly. Since BASCs starter for ten is that they have no interest or engagement with rifle shooters, I can't see BASC having anything useful to say, for us.
Fine words butter no parsnips.
ECHA have set a timetable. They have been tasked with doing this before, which didn't go well. They want responses ASAP. Starting 24 March (passed). Please don't delay your "coordinated response" all the way until the deadline, in September. Five months left for all of you to get your ducks in a row at the very last deadline. That is not long away in real life, whist some orgs. continue at a glacial pace.
Get in early. Engage. Research. Provide evidence. If necessary disengage from those who are holding you back. Cast out the stick in the muds and replace with more open minded and nimble people. But somehow I don't expect much of BASC, and your wider lot. Just get on with it as best you are able. And try to surprise us, in a good way.
Otherwise I suppose continue delaying tactics, which have got us to where we are today. Not really very clever nor constructive.
Fine talk. Reading between the lines
Fowler1990
Well-Known Member
#whocaresifyouheadshoot
#swappingmygunsforlurchers
#catchmeifyoucan.......
Needs to be seperate legislation for those selling to game dealers and those who are shooting stuff to eat.
#swappingmygunsforlurchers
#catchmeifyoucan.......
Needs to be seperate legislation for those selling to game dealers and those who are shooting stuff to eat.
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
UK Woodland Assurance Standard - who the hell are they, someone else jumping on the LEAD IS BAD bandwagon - see what you’ve started Conor
“Diffuse pollution of lead into the wider environment “ WTF! Makes it sound like someone’s dumping a load of highly toxic material. Couldn’t f’ing make it up, I hope the shooting organisations are going to put forward something to revoke all this ballacks.
Zio65
Well-Known Member
It means that it has knelt to the transversal political will in wanting to eliminate lead, FACE also includes nations where small avian species are hunted (60% of the hunts) where lead is and will remain the only possibility of ammunition, it would be illogical and economically unsustainable to shoot to thrushes with bismuth or tungsten at 4 euros per cartridge, this will automatically lead to the end of traditional hunts in many Mediterranean countries, weight / cost ratio is impossible. This is a way to eliminate certain types of hunting, leave the pheasants (commonly called colored chickens here), partridges and partridges farmed in the paid reserves, completely close the migratory .. point where the anti are most pressing. The excuse of health is a puppet where to hide, the announcement hides a specific intent to limit hunting because many people in the face of the need to change weapons, suffer higher costs for ammunition will abandon the hunt. Unfortunately this is a speech not relegated to my or your country, but the amazing thing is that thousands of used pro-lead guns are exported to countries like Lebanon where they will continue to shoot down everything that flies with lead while we are under strict control. for anything. We are the sacrificial lamb and FACE has done nothing to prevent it
Zio65
Well-Known Member
Indeed, I will tell you more, you are undergoing, despite you have come out of this crap of Europe, the dictates of the European Commission, because nowhere else in the world is lead questioned (except wetlands).
I repeat here in Italy on 7/8 hunting associations only the one adhering to FACE is selling the tender as the cure-all of hunting, the others are fighting it (even if they will not succeed unfortunately) and not only in Italy they do not share this is happening, l order comes from above and everyone is silent
I repeat here in Italy on 7/8 hunting associations only the one adhering to FACE is selling the tender as the cure-all of hunting, the others are fighting it (even if they will not succeed unfortunately) and not only in Italy they do not share this is happening, l order comes from above and everyone is silent
The new consultation isn’t just about the food chain, it is lead in the environment, all lead ammunition in all situations. Target shooting, air rifles in the garden, vermin control, fox control..... everything!
It isn't though, it's about control on shooting. The crack down on target shooting really gives it away, the risk from that (even if we accept lead is generally a problem) must be tiny, yet they want to catch most of that as well.
I'm generally a pragmatist with this sort of thing, and accept that there is probably little to be gained by continuing to oppose lead restrictions for deer and probably for shotguns also. However, BASC (and other orgs, I'm not singling them out) need to fight further incursions which aren't even justified by the antis's own arguments. If the orgs roll over on this, I think that would show that the phased voluntary whatever is not a tactical retreat to allow a better defence of those aspects of shooting less able to bear the weight of a lead ban but instead a complete surrender. I had previously thought the aim of the orgs was the former, but I'm starting to fear it isn't.
I suspect the NRA will, soon enough, have the issue determined for them by MoD.
Well worth reading the Radway Green page on the BAE Systems website: they are already moving to production of:
Enhanced Performance (EP) Ball
This is our newest 5.56mm round, delivering enhanced penetration range and lethality. It is compatible with all 5.56mm NATO weapons and has removed all lead from the bullet itself. This provides massively increased firepower from your existing weapons.
Small Arms Ammunition
BAE Systems can produce over one million rounds per day of Small Arms Ammunition in 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO calibres including ball, tracer and blank natures. Packaging configurations include carton, link and clip to suit operational and training requirements.
7.62mm ball will take a bit longer, but US small arms ammo production is now predominantly steel, not lead-cored.
Clearly, it will take a while (or a small war) to get through existing stocks of lead-cored ammo, but Bisley (and other gallery ranges) will have to adapt to non-lead projectiles soon enough, and reflect any increased ricochet risk.
I suspect the NRA will, soon enough, have the issue determined for them by MoD.
Well worth reading the Radway Green page on the BAE Systems website: they are already moving to production of:
Enhanced Performance (EP) Ball
This is our newest 5.56mm round, delivering enhanced penetration range and lethality. It is compatible with all 5.56mm NATO weapons and has removed all lead from the bullet itself. This provides massively increased firepower from your existing weapons.
Small Arms Ammunition
BAE Systems can produce over one million rounds per day of Small Arms Ammunition in 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO calibres including ball, tracer and blank natures. Packaging configurations include carton, link and clip to suit operational and training requirements.www.baesystems.com
7.62mm ball will take a bit longer, but US small arms ammo production is now predominantly steel, not lead-cored.
Clearly, it will take a while (or a small war) to get through existing stocks of lead-cored ammo, but Bisley (and other gallery ranges) will have to adapt to non-lead projectiles soon enough, and reflect any increased ricochet risk.
Considering mono metal bullets are banned at Bisley will they not need to change the backstop configuration completely to accommodate.
Almost certainly.
I suspect MoD will have to pay for some/all of that, once the EP rounds are in use
It depends upon which grounds the mono metal ban was based...according to Edinburgh Rifles when they were tested at Bisley there was no difference in mono metal and jacketed lead from a danger point of view but they still chose not to lift the ban.
But given that the lead free EP ball ammo in the BAE link is gilding metal jacketed steel core, it is not mono metal....even if the hardened steel core is armour piercing and ricochet prone...
So if they do maintain the mono metal ban it will only be the frangible jacketed lead free bullets that can be used following a range lead ban...Evo Green, Hornady MPG, Brenneke TUG and etc.
Unlikely?
Alan
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