When can the fox cubs survive if i have to shoot the parents?

[billy_boyle_2010]

Hi guys

I havent done much fox control historically- but local sheep farmer is keen for me to start hitting the foxes again- but I really dont want to orphan any cubs if they are too young to fend for themselves.

At what age are they able to take care of themselves ?

I shot a fair few heavily pregnant mothers at the start of the year- so think they were probably birthing quite early this year- but despite that- from what I can Google- it seems the cubs will struggle to survive alone until July.

Is that about right? Call me a softie if you wish!

 

[Tim.243]

Hi guys

I havent done much fox control historically- but local sheep farmer is keen for me to start hitting the foxes again- but I really dont want to orphan any cubs if they are too young to fend for themselves.

At what age are they able to take care of themselves ?

I shot a fair few heavily pregnant mothers at the start of the year- so think they were probably birthing quite early this year- but despite that- from what I can Google- it seems the cubs will struggle to survive alone until July.

Is that about right? Call me a softie if you wish!

often barren vixens will bring food, you best bet is to find the earth/set and start from there, last time I did this shot 7
3 cubs the vixen dog and 2 other vixens.
The Sheppard once was dealing with a ewe having twins when he saw a fox grab a new born lamb threw the stall and was pulling it....
That fox was a cub once...!!

 

[Donkey Basher]

Find the earth & shoot whatever you see! Keeper mate of mine used to do this & used an old BSA tap loading air rifle to shoot the cubs while they were out playing, he wasn't so worried about the parents as he could catch up to them any time after he'd dealt with the cubs & knew that the biggest increase in fox numbers would be the cubs & parents wouldn't be having any more for another year! Don't leave the cubs!

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Can I ask why you would not want to shoot cubs as well? Intrigued by only shooting adults not cubs.

 

[Eric the Red]

Can I ask why you would not want to shoot cubs as well? Intrigued by only shooting adults not cubs.

I don't believe that's the OP's question/statement/intent - he's asking when cubs can fend for themselves (if still underground) so they're not left to starve if the adults are taken. The answer for me is June time (depending on when born and it does seem to be all over the place at the moment).
As others have said, a good strategy is to find the earth and deal with the whole issue. Vixen first if you can and the cubs will come to her.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Oh ok, just me having one of those senior moments . Where I am, cubs already above ground so easy enough dealt with.

 

[foxdropper]

In many cases ,shooting the Cubs will bring to a halt any increase in predation .If there’s no more Cubs the parents cease caching food for them and they can be dealt with as and when .

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Thanks guys- apologies a long day. I should probably elaborate for context

2 month old Lambs have been killed in the past 2 weeks. No damage to carcass when found but of course disappear the next night.

Farmer worried it's foxes but quite probably an escaped dog who's just going wild. Fox clearing up the mess the following night of course but a fox- if it was desperate enough to take a bigger lamb- would take it immediately after killing surely?!

When cubs are visible above ground i will take them for sure. But I'm under pressure from the farmer to go out already and I think I will only see the adults out at this sort of time and don't want to orphan the cubs.

In truth if the lambs are ok now I prefer to leave the foxes until it's lambing time again. They won't do any harm for 9 months so why not let them be.

Farmers land is fairly small and I have cleared up the local foxes in the winter but I shall try and find the den so I can do a more humane job. If not I shall try and chat to the farmer and mahbe just do a recce for a night or two to see what's aboit and what's happening.

 

[mn87]

I don't believe that's the OP's question/statement/intent - he's asking when cubs can fend for themselves (if still underground) so they're not left to starve if the adults are taken. The answer for me is June time (depending on when born and it does seem to be all over the place at the moment).
As others have said, a good strategy is to find the earth and deal with the whole issue. Vixen first if you can and the cubs will come to her.

As someone who posts little bit browses a lot (mainly to learn) it is very refreshing to see an extremely sensible reply whilst also covering another response.

Apologies this is off topic. A number of posts recently on other threads have turned ridiculous and I’m sure put off a few people from engaging in conversation/debate

thanks

M

 

[shakey jake]

try shooting some rabbit for the foxes, if well fed less likely to be an issue, also once they are used to finding food the whole family will come then they can all be dealt with

 

[Sampo]

try shooting some rabbit for the foxes, if well fed less likely to be an issue, also once they are used to finding food the whole family will come then they can all be dealt with

Are the foxes affected if the rabbits are shot using lead?

 

[shakey jake]

probably in the same way as dogs, high velocity fragmenting bullets could cause acute poisoning, rimfire bullets i doubt would do much, could snare or cage traps the rabbits if your worried

 

[Boosh]

A responsible question from the op.
It's does not sound like the foxes are killing the 2 month old lambs, obviously clearing them up though.
If your hand is being forced then you have to make the choice which is more important to you. It sounds like you made an effort before cubbing season out in the cold.
I understand where you are coming from if you only operate on small farms (around me 100-150 acre livestock farms). The earth might be 5 farms away where you cannot get permission to do a full clear up job.Over time it's going to get worse for bad press when the public start putting vid's up of cubs starving to death over an earth.
In a food rich rabbity, pheasanty, dead sheep/ lambs area the cubs can make a do from about June, later on if they are in an area without a good food source.
Sometimes things have to be done.

 

[LuckyEddie]

I‘ve had unsubstantiated reports that if cubs are left, then any lone fox will mop them up.
Cubs can get orphaned without our intervention, where one parent ( or both) gets run over and the second succumbs to disease or is badly injured in a fight with an intruder.
That’s just how nature works, it might not be common but pound to a penny it does happen.

So we shoot the dog fox, then a fortnight later the milking vixen is belted by a car on the back roads. The cubs are orphaned and no one has a clue that they are about. Sad but that’s nature for you

 

[Overlay]

Put a stealth camera out and count the cubs, fully remove the cubs first then move on to the adults, you can pick the remaining adults off as you want

You've got no moral problems, job is 100% and you've greatly reduced the following years problem of fox activity

 

[Boosh]

Chances are if you start potting the cubs first the parents will move the litter.

 

[Scandially]

Lots of wool in fox shi☆e at the moment.

 

[badbob]

Certainly dont call you soft. Its good to consider carefully what we are doing.
We know nature itself can be cruel, doesn`t mean we have to add to it.
The general public who dont raise sheep chickens and pheasants think foxes are lovely.
The do gooders think they should be protected.
Indeed they are a splendid animal. But they are predators and can play havoc with our interests.
They in turn inflict cruelty (as we humans see it.)
There a massive recruitment of foxes every year from urban areas
Most of the cubs are eating meat now, bought to them by the parents. They are out in daylight much more.
My experience is with pheasants and by June/July the cubs are rampaging sometimes in groups of four or five.

So I would say from now on ,get stuck in relentlessly , the farmer after all is requesting you to do this.

 

[NigelM]

My reason for fox shooting has aways been protection of pheasant/partridge and other ground nesters. I don't have a pathological dislike of foxes and don't mind seeing one or two about, just not too many. It's all about a bit of balance I think. Happy with a few acceptable losses, just not too many. I shoot them hard from harvest to mid January. If I've done my job well enough over that period the numbers are under control and the few that remain are left to have their litter and bring up their cubs in peace.

I might be saying something very different if I had lambs in the game, but thankfully I don't.

 

[Boosh]

Echo my thoughts exactly Nigel.