Reloading- more questions than answers now

[wildfowler.250]

So this ended up in a bit of a jumble..

I picked up a 6.5x55 in good condition from a gun shop significantly further south than myself.

I decided that I preferred the look of the 120grain trajectory over the 140 grain and knocked up a batch with viht n160,(I’ve 3.5kg of this as I’ve also got a .270) with some sierra 120grain prohunters. Couldn’t hit a barn door with it!

After having the rifle screw cut (properly) the problem was solved. I shot some factory Norma 120grain and they grouped under an inch. There was some factory federal 140 grain moly coated and they put 3 shots into the same hole,(admittedly a small shot count group but still very good).

But by this point I had the first X number of batches of 120 grain sierra prohunters loaded up and some already shot whilst I had the dodgy moderator.

Below 48grain gave sooty cases so I didn’t rush to re-load these.

Shots were prone in a field with no rear rest etc so I fully accept some user error. It there anything worth persevering with here or jump to 140’s?

I think I shot off the 50grain batch months ago trying to work out if it was the low powder/sooty cases that was the problem,(it was the moderator) so that’s why there’s a gap in the results


Any advice? Everything was loaded to COAL in the Sierra textbook. I’m not sure whether to start again with the 120’s. Tweak what I have seathing depth wise,(this spooks me a little). Or what? I do feel I am pulling the odd shot ever so slightly which makes thing harder to interpret. Thanks!


PS 1” circle, 1/2” squares

 

[Stalker62]

Bearing in mind your (very honest) comments, and looking at the targets: my money is on you "pulling" shots.

Which is nice, because it makes you human.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Bearing in mind your (very honest) comments, and looking at the targets: my money is on you "pulling" shots.

Which is nice, because it makes you human.

It’s frustrating because 48.5 grain bar 1 is fairly tight and 49 grain bar 1 is fairly tight.

maybe I should re load these 2 again shoot a few 4 shot groups with them. 50.5 grain is also relatively reasonable.

They’ll all kill deer. I do wonder if the mod came slightly loose on the 49.5grain as it was really poor!

Do most people tend to use a rear rest or hand under to support the stock as I’m doing?

Thanks!

 

[Mike_E]

i'm just beginning the reloading thing myself but I would argue that without a rear bag for support then its not worth trying to test different loads. the 140 group was only 3 shots.

For example - (assumes 1m between bipod and rear of stock to make maths easy..) To change the POI by 1" at 100m it only takes a movement at the back of the stock of 0.25mm.... pretty hard to hold it THAT steady without a rear support.

 

[ezzy6.5]

Shooting the same way, how accurate are you with your .270?
In the field I always use a fist under the stock at the rear. When testing loads I use a rear bag. My hand just holds the bags ears.
mid guess it’s you causing the flyers but without knowing how you normally shoot it’s hard to say.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers guys. I’m prone on a field off the bipod with my left hand tucked under the stock between my thumb and index in a V shape.

It sounds like it might be worthwhile preserving one of the groups above then if there’s some pilot error?

I’m not bad with the .270. Again less than an inch, probably a 3/4” group average with an 8x56 scope

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I use a rear bag when load testing. Secondly, you are allowed to use powder weights that don't end in .0 or .5.
Regards
JCS

 

[wildfowler.250]

I use a rear bag when load testing. Secondly, you are allowed to use powder weights that don't end in .0 or .5.
Regards
JCS

I think by the sounds of it a rear bag might make a big difference to take out some of the variability.

I have gone onto the ‘funny’ numbers like 0.2 and 0.7 in the other calibers. I just started off in 0.5 grain jumps in the newer calibers as I thought that was reasonable? Or too big?

 

[User00040]

Even your worst group will be enough to kill deer at 200m+

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmm. 6.5x55s are very long chambered to accept heavy bullets used for moose etc so as a first step try to measure it with the bullet of choice. In my case with Sierra PH120 and GC130s I could not even get a measurement - so long bullets fell out of neck cut brass! So I went for traditional starting seating depth of calibre (.264) as a starter then went longer with both bullets. The Sierra loads are higher than Vihts so I settled on a mild load of 45gns of N160 for both and they are both devastating on anything you will encounter this side of the Atlantic - if you do your bit and you can see the strike. If zeroing etc. a bench, bipod/sandbag and butt rest are essential. The rest is down to you my friend. Good luck.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I think by the sounds of it a rear bag might make a big difference to take out some of the variability.

I have gone onto the ‘funny’ numbers like 0.2 and 0.7 in the other calibers. I just started off in 0.5 grain jumps in the newer calibers as I thought that was reasonable? Or too big?

Personally I use percentage rather than 0.5 or 0.2 etc of a grain. I take the usually 10% under max and add 1% write down the figure and repeat till max. I then round those numbers to the nearest my scales will weight. You get some odd numbers but regardless of which cartridge you're loading for you get an even spread of weight. You don't get a big jump with the smaller cases either. Not the only way but I find it works for me.

 

[baguio]

I think by the sounds of it a rear bag might make a big difference to take out some of the variability.

I have gone onto the ‘funny’ numbers like 0.2 and 0.7 in the other calibers. I just started off in 0.5 grain jumps in the newer calibers as I thought that was reasonable? Or too big?

Too big IMO. I was told by someone on here who knows far more about re-loading than me to use 0.3 grains. However, after checking for pressure signs going through those loads I am now rather inclined to think that picking a powder charge/bullet speed and gradually shortening the OAL but 10 thou" per group is a better way to find the sweet spot.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Even your worst group will be enough to kill deer at 200m+

Thanks! Totally get that. It’s just not great for confidence if you’re doubling the group size but I suppose most of those are around 2” at 200

Hmm. 6.5x55s are very long chambered to accept heavy bullets used for moose etc so as a first step try to measure it with the bullet of choice. In my case with Sierra PH120 and GC130s I could not even get a measurement - so long bullets fell out of neck cut brass! So I went for traditional starting seating depth of calibre (.264) as a starter then went longer with both bullets. The Sierra loads are higher than Vihts so I settled on a mild load of 45gns of N160 for both and they are both devastating on anything you will encounter this side of the Atlantic - if you do your bit and you can see the strike. If zeroing etc. a bench, bipod/sandbag and butt rest are essential. The rest is down to you my friend. Good luck.

Thanks! Is there a rough list of coals I can try? I can’t remember what I took from the Sierra textbook but I’m assuming I can shorten this a little? At what point does it become too compressed?
I thought the 50.5grain shows some promise but sounds quite punchy compared to 45grains!

Personally I use percentage rather than 0.5 or 0.2 etc of a grain. I take the usually 10% under max and add 1% write down the figure and repeat till max. I then round those numbers to the nearest my scales will weight. You get some odd numbers but regardless of which cartridge you're loading for you get an even spread of weight. You don't get a big jump with the smaller cases either. Not the only way but I find it works for me.

Thanks that very interesting. I’ll try the % next time. Might even try a narrower powder spread around these charges

Too big IMO. I was told by someone on here who knows far more about re-loading than me to use 0.3 grains. However, after checking for pressure signs going through those loads I am now rather inclined to think that picking a powder charge/bullet speed and gradually shortening the OAL but 10 thou" per group is a better way to find the sweet spot.

Thanks! Really appreciate it. From the coal how short can I go?

 

[baguio]

Thanks! Really appreciate it. From the coal how short can I go?

I don't know if I'm honest. Hopefully someone else will answer that question for you. Personally I have found a group before I got more than 100 thou off the lands so haven't needed to push it.

 

[Highfield]

never seen the point of coal, if it fits in the chambar and fits in the mag then it will work. agree that seating depth is probably more important to accuracy than people think. that said, sorry but absolutly now point in testing loads without a rear bag at the very least you are just wasting bullets

 

[NP435]

The rear bag helps steady the rifle, I don't worry much about c.o.a.l if it fits the magazine and is not jammed in the lead of rifling I stop right there. Remember that the published c.o.a.l may not work with your rifle tolerances vary.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Thanks! Totally get that. It’s just not great for confidence if you’re doubling the group size but I suppose most of those are around 2” at 200

Thanks! Is there a rough list of coals I can try? I can’t remember what I took from the Sierra textbook but I’m assuming I can shorten this a little? At what point does it become too compressed?
I thought the 50.5grain shows some promise but sounds quite punchy compared to 45grains!

Thanks that very interesting. I’ll try the % next time. Might even try a narrower powder spread around these charges

Thanks! Really appreciate it. From the coal how short can I go?

Re the Viht 160 loads - Viht guide specifies 43.8-47.4gns for 120gns and 37.2-43.8gns for 139gns. Yes- I know Viht has “downsized” loads over recent times but IMHO 50gns is way too much powder for the 120s to the point of dangerous - It would be useful to see some pictures of fired brass incl. the bases and have your experiences of extraction - any sticky bolt etc and reloading - extreme stretch, loose primer pockets, incipient case separation etc. In the interim I really would advise going back to basics i.e. Starting load and work up say 3 rounds in .3 increments - oddly enough just as all books and websites advise.
Be very careful, that is a potential grenade three inches from your nose!

 

[stubear]

I would try to duplicate the factory ammo to be honest. If you have factory ammo that works then get as close as you can to that - same bullets, same velocity, same OAL etc.

 

[ezzy6.5]

Lots of good advice in this thread so far. This is how I would go about it. Obviously it depends on how close you are to a 100m range or if you have access to somewhere you can shoot a few rounds without the neighbors getting upset.
I pick a bullet I want to use. Don’t worry about trajectories, it’s unlikely it will make much difference unless your shooting at 250m +.
assuming all the basics are right, full length sized, lube removed etc. I’d load 3rnds from starting load then I’d go up in .5 gn increments. It’s unlikely you’ll want to be using a really light load so don’t worry about 5 shot groups yet. Once I’m within 2-3 grains of max I start going up in .2 increments, still 3 shots. Shooting at a different target each time. From a bench. Allowing my gun to cool after 3 shots. I start out with a clean gun. If 2 shots from a group are miles apart I don’t bother firing the 3rd. I push a patch through every 4 or 5 group and clean properly after about 25 rounds (I can then use a round from an earlier group to to soil the barrel if that makes sense). At this point I’m trying to find a range of charges that show potential and whilst checking for pressure. Let’s just say that groups 45, 45.5 and 46 all shoot well. I pick the middle one and go with that. I don’t do anything with seating depths until I’ve got a load shooting under 1”.
Once I’ve got that sorted if I want to tweak the load, I will start on seating depth.
first I determine at what point my bullet is touching the lands. There are different ways to do this, I use the hornady kit with a modified case but there are other ways. I load up a batch of 50 rounds at my chosen charge weight then seat all the bullets 20 thou off the lands. I head off to the range with these rounds, my press and my measuring kit. I then start shooting 5 shot groups, tweaking the seating depth by 3 thou after each group. As soon as I shoot a group I like. I seat another 5 without touching the depth. If these are ok, I’m done. I then run all the left overs through the press so they are seated to the right depth. Measure these, I don’t care about oal. I want to measure to the ogive (hornady kit again) I’ll use this length for any future loads irrespective of bullet.
not the only way and I’m sure everyone will do it differently or point out a bettter way but that’s what I do. For reference, my rifle shoots nicely with bullets 60thou off the lands.

 

[ezzy6.5]

Forgot to add, if I know a factory round shoots well, I measure the length to ogive and start there with my loads.