real life experience with copper bullets ??

[breakout 103]

we have read the press and face tube on copper bullets and how they perform from self proclaimed experts,so its time to ask for the experience from people who have actually used them and not just into water containers,whats your honest opinion and results ?? do you think the bullets arnt up to the job or is it certain calibers arnt up to the job ?? I have my own opinion through experince using copper for over 20 years but be nice to hear whats otehrs thing espeically with the fashionable paper punching calibers thats now in use

 

[Dunwaters]

They work fine.
Penetration is better than with lead, which suits me, trajectory is a bit flatter at typical stalking ranges because you can use a lighter bullet to achieve the same result e.g 120gr 6.5x55 instead of 140gr.
If there was any real issue with them it’d be all over the inter web by now, buy some and have a go.

 

[ColinBr]

A mate of mine has used Barnes for 12 years now. He certainly has no complaints and shoots a lot of deer.

His main reason for using copper is that there is minimal carcass damage.

 

[arron]

My bit of advise would be alter your POI to include shoulder if possible,,, everyone has their own opinions, but that is mine ,

 

[NickJ]

we have read the press and face tube on copper bullets and how they perform from self proclaimed experts,so its time to ask for the experience from people who have actually used them and not just into water containers,whats your honest opinion and results ?? do you think the bullets arnt up to the job or is it certain calibers arnt up to the job ?? I have my own opinion through experince using copper for over 20 years but be nice to hear whats otehrs thing espeically with the fashionable paper punching calibers thats now in use

Ask any FLS or FC Ranger, they shoot more deer than most and have been using them for many years.

They generally say 'they work fine, different rifles like different brands - just like lead.'

 

[bryn]

Just head shot a buck this morning with an 80g Fox (home load viht 140) which which perhaps is not the best indicator of meat damage etc, but please with the accuracy it did what was expected of it

bryn

 

[Selous]

They expand fine providing sufficient velocity and penetrate deep for their weight. I like to use light for calibre bullets at 3000fps plus and have not had any issues over the last 15+ years of use on red, roe and a single Sika. I have exclusively used Barnes bullets and like the 130g in 308 Win, 120g in 7mm and 100g in 6.5

 

[Rutland lad]

I’ve used a 180 grain Barnes TSX in my .300 Winmag for at least 10 years. It’s not a hot load, about 2,800fps but extremely accurate (see photo on left) and creates less meat damage than my previous .243 using factory 105 grain lead (GECO)
It’s shot everything in the UK bar Chinese water deer and I would not hesitate to recommend nontoxic to anyone.
Don’t believe all the nay sayers. Try a few different makes etc and decide for yourself.

 

[Deermanagement]

Asked a colleague not to use copper for the Sika with me after seeing the result of a broadside shot on a roe buck a few months ago. Same sort of result as seen by another colleague, so will continue to use what has worked for many decades. Maybe the reason I drive an 04 Volvo after failing to kill my 53 Volvo which sounds as sweet as a nut after 240k miles.

I will try Evo green however, if and when they become available for reloading .

 

[Overlay]

using NT factor ammo in 222 and .243 calibres so far both have been 100%.
had no problems zeroing and carcase damage has been the same

 

[Magnificent 7]

Witnessed. Goat shot with copper and it wasn't good took three shots and upon skinning all the shots if had been lead would of killed it.Same lad shot a red and very poor results.The shot placement has to change from lead as for less meat damage smashing two shoulders with a copper round.Compared to a heart lung shot for me it's a no brainer.All my meat is used by friends and family and I won't be making the change if I don't have too.Head /neck at range leaves more room for error especially with an almost non expanding bullet.

 

[NigelM]

Not all "copper" bullets are the same, in exactly the same way as there are plenty of different types of lead bullet. The traditional TSX are tougher than the Barnes TTSX and LRX and some of the new fragmenting designs coming to market like the Yew Tree are different again. A blanket "copper doesn't work" statement is not helpful at all.

Then there's matching terminal velocity with the bullet. A tougher copper bullet in a slow chambering (or heavy for calibre) is not going to work at range. As @srvet says, keep the velocity up and use a relatively light for calibre bullet over a sensible range and most copper bullets will work effectively.

The other point to consider is shot placement. The traditional behind the front leg placement is more risky with copper especially if velocity is down a bit. The hillar shot tends to be more reliable.

Using copper is different to using lead, especially if you have been using bullets like SST's and BT's. It doesn't behave in the same way and you have to change your bullet weight/velocity and point of aim if you want it to be reliable. But with those changes made it does work well for all but those who are taking 250m plus shots. For those longer shots for which bullets like the AMax and ELDX were designed there is not to my knowledge a good copper alternative, but that will only effect a very small % of deer managers and most of us in the UK have the option to get in a bit closer if we are so inclined. Neck and head shots don't have the margin of error that a fragmenting lead bullet gives you either and I tend not to neck as much as a result when using copper.

I have used TTSX and LRX for 6 or 7 years and been very happy with them. I have just ordered some Yew Tree bullets for the 7mm to understand how differently they behave and will be using them on Red and Sika in October. It is a learning curve, but it's not the end of the world, we are capable of adapting.

 

[Selous]

Witnessed. Goat shot with copper and it wasn't good took three shots and upon skinning all the shots if had been lead would of killed it.Same lad shot a red and very poor results.The shot placement has to change from lead as for less meat damage smashing two shoulders with a copper round.Compared to a heart lung shot for me it's a no brainer.All my meat is used by friends and family and I won't be making the change if I don't have too.Head /neck at range leaves more room for error especially with an almost non expanding bullet.

You have probably heard that two swallows don’t make a summer and in similar fashion one animal doesn’t mean much, particularly if bullet choice was badly miscalculated , range extended and shot placement suboptimal. Something similar would be expected if the same animal was shot with a Lapua Scenar despite its lead core! Having now shot literally hundreds of deer with copper bullets and combining my data with that of other users such as @NigelM and the FC it is blatantly obvious that copper bullets can and do work every bit as effectively as lead bullets under almost all UK conditions. I except shooting at over 350-400m from this but in the fullness of time this will also become doable with non lead bullets.

 

[Pete1774]

These videos might be of interest:

On Test: best copper bullets for deer

Firearms expert Andrew Venables has a guilty secret (innocent secret?). He prefers copper bullets to lead bullets. In this film, he puts copper bullets through their paces on a range, showing how they win on both accuracy and fillability. Thanks to Tim Pilbeam for letting us use his range. Have...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

Copper bullets and meat damage

Meat damage is one of Andrew Venables’ primary reasons to move away from lead bullets. For him, the argument revolves around weight retention. “You’ve seen the x-rays, you’ve seen the ballistic media, the different pictures going around on social media. 40% of that bullet is left in the animal...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

Copper bullet power and performance

In the first test of its kind, firearms experts Andrew Venables from WMSFirearmsTraining.com and Tim Pilbeam try out nine brands of copper bullets at 100 metres/yards and 250 metres/yards. With more UK venison processors demanding deer are shot with non-toxic bullets, they look at what you can...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

 

[Shootgun]

As above, shot hundreds of deer with 130gr Barnes TSX and 110gr TTSX , only recovered one bullet of each and only lost one deer, but the error was mine.
I think they work better than lead, and definitely are more accurate, also less meat damage.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Lad taking the shot is a competant Shot bullet choice was hornadys offering in 110 grain out of a 308.Im not wanting an argument and agree two swallows don't make a swallow but two shots and two animals suffering is two to many for me.Ive nothing against anyone using it crack on lads I just added my two bit I won't be using it.

 

[Alantoo]

At the ranges I shoot Fallow, Roe and Muntjac I have found them similar in effect to lead core bullets in that you shoot them and they die, whether chest or neck shot.

The main difference between frangible core bullets (either lead or lead free) and the expanding lead free mono-metal bullets is the amount of meat waste...as different from meat damage.

The meat around the wound track is not contaminated with any metal particles from non-frangible bullets like TTSX or Fox, so can be used, even if only for mince or animals.

Alan

 

[Magnificent 7]

Forestry lads aren't to fussed either in meat damage they get paid on carcass.So smashing shoulders isn't an issue.One lad I know does a lot of contracting and been using it for a long while commented make sure you've a good dog and smash both shoulders.

 

[breakout 103]

These videos might be of interest:

On Test: best copper bullets for deer

Firearms expert Andrew Venables has a guilty secret (innocent secret?). He prefers copper bullets to lead bullets. In this film, he puts copper bullets through their paces on a range, showing how they win on both accuracy and fillability. Thanks to Tim Pilbeam for letting us use his range. Have...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

Copper bullets and meat damage

Meat damage is one of Andrew Venables’ primary reasons to move away from lead bullets. For him, the argument revolves around weight retention. “You’ve seen the x-rays, you’ve seen the ballistic media, the different pictures going around on social media. 40% of that bullet is left in the animal...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

Copper bullet power and performance

In the first test of its kind, firearms experts Andrew Venables from WMSFirearmsTraining.com and Tim Pilbeam try out nine brands of copper bullets at 100 metres/yards and 250 metres/yards. With more UK venison processors demanding deer are shot with non-toxic bullets, they look at what you can...

www.fieldsportschannel.tv

As i said "self proclaimed experts" shooting IBC full of water shows nothing as deer are not 4ft wide

 

[Selous]

I too have no interest in an argument as far as I’m concerned everyone can use what they want.
I may be wrong but I can’t see that Hornady produce a 110g GMX cartridge in the 308 Win. Could have been the 150 or 165gr or perhaps a home load with the 110GMX designed for the 300 Blackout. It sounds like something has clearly gone wrong with that animal. Was there evidence of narrow wound channels or inadequate penetration? I have never used the GMX so cannot compare against the TTSX. To pick up on another comment, I don’t think you need to hit bone with the copper TTSX bullets (or any bullets) , I shoot just behind the shoulder joint but below the scapula.