Fox bullets for moose. selecting weight

[Karhumies]

looks like 123gr and up are now moose legal here if they are monolithic. So now i am wondering, would 130gr fox classic Hunter be a decent moose option?

I currently have 150gr over n540 loaded in my 308 but it doesnt group as well as i would like. Typically lighter bullets seem to group better in this rifle but i wonder if the 130gr are good for the job. Concerns are meat damage/blood blisters, great way to annoy the rest of the group. and more importantly wether they would kill as well on such a big animal. Other bullets are also up for consideration but Fox tend to be very forgiving so i feel they are a good bet for such a finicky rifle.

Yes it doesnt take amazing groups to kill a moose but come on, we all love small groups on paper wether we need them or not. 150gr groups about 10cm

 

[Danny Fireblade]

You should try Barnes 130gr TTSX. I’ve not heard of a rifle that doesn’t group well with them and they can be driven fast with good stopping power.

 

[tagergaard]

Moose in Sweden dies very quickly with 130 gr Fox Classic Hunter in 308, just put them in the engineroom (will probably penetrate large shoulder bones as well, just haven't testet..)

 

[Karhumies]

You should try Barnes 130gr TTSX. I’ve not heard of a rifle that doesn’t group well with them and they can be driven fast with good stopping power.

This rifle is extremely finicky. Are ttsx as forgiving as Fox? i am quite partial to Fox bullets because they tend to be super easy to work with and do a good job. This rifle is just extremely picky. about weight and powder. getting decent groups on a bolt action is one thing, timing it with an overgassed non adjustable long stroke gas system is another. Takes exactlt the right pressure curve to get accuracy. N135 and 100gr bullets tend to do well for instance.

 

[Karhumies]

Moose in Sweden dies very quickly with 130 gr Fox Classic Hunter in 308, just put them in the engineroom (will probably penetrate large shoulder bones as well, just haven't testet..)

our moose are pretty mutch the same moose so sounds good.

I have this mental preconception that you shoot moose with 180gr and 150gr is light! But its probably purely in my head.

 

[Karhumies]

Just so you get an idea what iam working with

this is my rifle

 

[tagergaard]

With conventional lead bullets, I'll agree. But mono's are a different beast.

 

[3595wilk]

Edinburgh rifles has load data for the 130 Fox.

I actually use 41.5 gr of N133 with a COAL of 2.73 inches for 130 Fox bullets.

Makes about 2800FPS out of my 20 inch Tikka .308. That's about 100fps slower than Ed's loads come out of my barrel, but groups slightly better.

Worked last November in South West England Red stags in the rut.....

No idea on its capabilities against Moose though....but South West Reds can carry a bit of weight.

 

[Karhumies]

Edinburgh rifles has load data for the 130 Fox.

I actually use 41.5 gr of N133 with a COAL of 2.73 inches for 130 Fox bullets.

Makes about 2800FPS out of my 20 inch Tikka .308. That's about 100fps slower than Ed's loads come out of my barrel, but groups slightly better.

Worked last November in South West England Red stags in the rut.....

No idea on its capabilities against Moose though....but South West Reds can carry a bit of weight.

Been using slightly modified versions of his loads with great succes. Just adjusting OAL. I find Fox bullets get their full potential at 2-1mm off the rifling in most rifles.


In this case his loads never seem to work well but thats because the rifle requires a special approach. Top accuracy isnt achieved with the best consistent velocity and barrel harmonics but by shaping the pressure curve to time the action. I had a gunsmith temporarily block the gasport once and on single shot it achieved sub MOA with one of Eds loads. Same load with gas system engaged was a 38cm string. So i just need to try different bullet weights and powders until something hits the sweet spot.

Next up 130gr over n135 and n140, see how it goes.

 

[Scipio]

Just so you get an idea what iam working with

this is my rifle

View attachment 419148

Hello my nordic friend, and salutations from Denmark This rifle looks very interesting, is it some sort of AK/g43 hunting rifle adapted design ?
As for bullet weight question, moose, huge as they are, are not considered heavy skinned or difficult to take down, right? And a fox 130 in terms of sectional density is, by most accounts, pretty much equal to circa a 165 grn lead in 308.

 

[Karhumies]

Hello my nordic friend, and salutations from Denmark This rifle looks very interesting, is it some sort of AK/g43 hunting rifle adapted design ?
As for bullet weight question, moose, huge as they are, are not considered heavy skinned or difficult to take down, right? And a fox 130 in terms of sectional density is, by most accounts, pretty much equal to circa a 165 grn lead in 308.

Its a RPK, so like an AK but bigger.

They arent particularly thick Skinned but they can get pretty heavy boned.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

You should try Barnes 130gr TTSX. I’ve not heard of a rifle that doesn’t group well with them and they can be driven fast with good stopping power.

Really?
They are the reason we started importing alternatives
Marmite accuracy
Some rifles group extremely well
Others couldn’t hit a dinner plate with them
One particular Blaser had us questioning the barrel until we shot a clover leaf with lead and some other non lead rounds

Nothing is faultless

 

[Happy stalker]

Fox 130gn in my tikka 308 using n130 2860 fps, very pleased

 

[Karhumies]

Really?
They are the reason we started importing alternatives
Marmite accuracy
Some rifles group extremely well
Others couldn’t hit a dinner plate with them
One particular Blaser had us questioning the barrel until we shot a clover leaf with lead and some other non lead rounds

Nothing is faultless

Fox is my go to when i want a quick and easy load. Weight has thrown me curveballs tho. in my 6.5x55 139 wouldnt stabilise and in my 30-06 the 165gr where frustrating but both 150 and 180 did great.

150 gr does 10cm or so in my 308. Not a particularly accurate system to begin with but 3-5 cm is pretty standard with stuff it likes.

il try 130gr with n135 first, then n140 and maybe n540. The key to getting a gun like this accurate is getting a good pressure curve.

 

[Scipio]

Its a RPK, so like an AK but bigger.

They arent particularly thick Skinned but they can get pretty heavy boned.

hello, cool, i have never heard of that before, the rpk that is. Who makes it?

Yep i can imagine that they can, but the non lead non fragmentables should punch through that quite well, i imagine. Maybe someone on here will have proper field experiences of using the 165s 30 cal fox classic hunters on heavy boned game, but my first thought is, that is that they should do well when fired from a 308 class case or bigger

 

[Karhumies]

hello, cool, i have never seen that before, the rpk. Who makes it?

Yep i can imagine that they can, but the non lead non fragmentables should punch through that quite well, i imagine. Maybe someone on here will have proper field experiences of using the 165s 30 cal fox classic hunters on heavy boned game, but my first thought is, that is that they should do well

vyatskiye polyani. They used to make the Ppsh-41 back in the day.

With the current political situation i doubt you can still find them anywhere, they have even popped up as scout rifles in the war. Its a bit like a big Saiga.

Been a PITA finding parts for it lately. zenitco used to be the main supplier of stocks and mounts for them. Since its an RPK the regular AK stuff doesnt fit as well. it uses an upgraded version of the classic side rail, takes both dragunov and AK mounts but its a bit taller than a regular AK and forget about putting dragunov stuff on it (height).

Ofcourse it doesnt come like this, it comes in some ugly wooden thumbhole stock to pass as a hunting rifle. So i slapped on some magpul stuff. The rifle is legal in Finland but police get very nervous around tactical looking stuff and may outright deny the license if they feel its too military looking. Ofcourse once you own it its no problem, furniture doesnt affect the legality once you have the license in hand.

 

[Scipio]

Hello lad, well i dont think i have ever seen an ar ok ak/rpk build used for hunting in Denmark or Italy tbh, and i dont even know if the police in Denmark would issue a weapons license for them either tbh .
But that is ok, i have what i need i think. (though i might want a kipplauf as well, if i am being honest).

but let us know what you end up going for, bullet type and weight wise, and how it performs too of course

 

[Karhumies]

Hello lad, well i dont think i have ever seen an ar ok ak/rpk build used for hunting in Denmark or Italy tbh, and i dont even know if the police in Denmark would issue a weapons license for them either tbh .
But that is ok, i have what i need i think. (though i might want a kipplauf as well, if i am being honest).

but let us know what you end up going for, bullet type and weight wise, and how it performs too of course

I had what i needed with my first drilling you know how it goes. On my list is a double rifle in some ridiculous safari cartridge. for "moose hunting"

Finland is rather liberal in this regard, half the people i know own AR and RK platforms for military training. And Valmet built rifles like the Petra for bear hunting etc wich are based on the RK62 assault rifle. So it has a history/culture here. I wouldnt say anyone "needs" one for hunting tho.

Its just so mutch fun at the range.

i dont remember ever firing it twice in a row during a hunt.

 

[Scipio]

I had what i needed with my first drilling you know how it goes. On my list is a double rifle in some ridiculous safari cartridge. for "moose hunting"

Finland is rather liberal in this regard, half the people i know own AR and RK platforms for military training. And Valmet built rifles like the Petra for bear hunting etc wich are based on the RK62 assault rifle. So it has a history/culture here. I wouldnt say anyone "needs" one for hunting tho.

Its just so mutch fun at the range.

i dont remember ever firing it twice in a row during a hunt.

ha!, yep - and good luck with the double rifle