Steel pin tumbling vs ultrasound

[User00044]

Does shinier brass shoot better

It's more a personal thing , if anything I've read it hampers obturation. Plus some have found excessively clean case mouths may lead to large ES's , which apparently, is why some use graphite .
I gave up on polishing cases a while back , I simply decap and follow this with a ten minute cycle in the US . In the main thats to remove dirt and residual lube to stop the cases slipping on the annealer wheels and to prevent dirt being introduced into the dies .
I now work on evidence based reloading , a process needs to show benefits to be included . Hence , like Muir , my tumbler stands idle .
Basically , if you like shiny cases , enjoy . We all have a different take .

 

[zambezi]

All of the above is an awesome reason to stick with an ultrasonic cleaner.

More evidence today to support my growing accord with Muir on steel pin tumbling: the peened neck of the case flares both inward and outward. This is evidenced by hanging case in jaws of vernier . So whilst fixing the inside lip is easily achievable [if laborious] using an appropriately dimensioned and sharp drill bit , fixing that outer flaring might be trickier. That is because the external chamfer tool appears to push the burr down the neck in the same way that the internal chamfer failed to remove the inner burr. Why is that important? Because my resizing dies use a collar system . So...a 3 thou lip on the inside, mirrored by a 3 thou lip on the outside is likely to create a 6 thou constriction at the neck after the sizing die has swaged it inwards. Graphically:


Put simply: the peening I see is likely to result in the formation of a tight band on the top of the neck mouth after resizing. So whereas your dies are nominally applying a 2 thou neck tension, the lip may be nearer 5 thou.

 

[stephentri]

Stick with the ultrasonic cleaner and use seaclean and hot water,

 

[zambezi]

Anyone want to buy a delux Frankenford Arsenal Platinum tumbler? Used once from new. Massively discounted: £250. [see new price below]

Per this thread, it may not be for everyone. But there is no denying that it gets cases VERY clean.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have been stainless tumbling for a few years now and have never had this as a pronounced issue. I always deprime, tumble, size and chamfer so that may account for it but have not noticed an issue at all. I’ve not noticed it on .38 or .357 that doesn’t get chamfered either.

What brand of brass are you using? Is it a softer brand?

How many cases are you tumbling, for how long with how much media?

 

[25 Sharps]

Anyone want to buy a delux Frankenford Arsenal Platinum tumbler? Used once from new. Massively discounted: £250. [see new price below]

Per this thread, it may not be for everyone. But there is no denying that it gets cases VERY clean.

View attachment 226020

@SaOsborne ?

 

[zambezi]

What brand of brass are you using? Is it a softer brand?

Already stated above. Only the Hornady brass peened:

Sako 6.5x55mm cases were not peened one bit in the rotary tumbler. The Sako brass seems a lot harder than the 6.5PRC Hornady brass

 

[mealiejimmy]

Off topic I know, but there are more differences between Hornady and European brass (Lapua/Sako/Norma/PPU) than meets the eye
I was recently annealing some 6.5cm Lapua brass for a pal and all was going well.
8 seconds in the annealing coil and they were coming out with the classic colour band and the hardensses were consistently the same or very close to the same as new Lapua brass
That was until one case glowed red hot in the coil and the dropped out with the case neck melted.
Guess what - it was a Hornady case.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[25 Sharps]

Already stated above. Only the Hornady brass peened:

That's your answer then, soft hornady brass, let us know how long the primer pockets last - anything like their creedmoor brass and it won't be long!

 

[Alantoo]

Some primer pockets remained gummy and required additional mechanical abrading with a brush.

I am interested that you found U/S sometimes failed to clean the primer pockets.

It is one of the reasons I started to place my cases carefully upright in a honey jar. Gravity helps the clag fall away.

I also found it was most effective to zap the cases in two sessions and give the honey jar a shake around in between, which cleared any lumps of clag held by habit in the pockets. Since adopting that system I haven't had any sludge left in the primer pockets.

Alan

 

[zambezi]

I am interested that you found U/S sometimes failed to clean the primer pockets.

It is one of the reasons I started to place my cases carefully upright in a honey jar. Gravity helps the clag fall away.

I also found it was most effective to zap the cases in two sessions and give the honey jar a shake around in between, which cleared any lumps of clag held by habit in the pockets. Since adopting that system I haven't had any sludge left in the primer pockets.

Alan

Are you using Sunlight+citrix, or a proprietary cleaner?

 

[Jimbob39]

Does anyone have an ultrasonic cleaner for sale or point me towards a suitable one please?

 

[Alantoo]

Are you using Sunlight+citrix, or a proprietary cleaner?

Teaspoon of citric acid powder, a couple of drips of Bio-D washing up liquid and hot water per 1lb honey jar and aound 25no. .308W cases. 10 litre version of your U/S unit.

I have just looked at the dial and it is zapped a bit longer a than I remembered. I set it with just a casual twist of the timer. But it looks like two zaps of around 8 to 10 minutes each. Poured into a sieve and rinsed under the hot tap, poured into a pot with a bicarbonate of soda solution, then another rinse under the hot tap. We are on a Spring and have very Limey water so probably the soda bicarbonate is overkill.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

Does anyone have an ultrasonic cleaner for sale or point me towards a suitable one please?

Lots of the Chinese stainless tank ones on eBay or Amazon. I bought the 10 litre one for around £140 so I could do things like Briggs and Stratton carburettors. But I don’t clean out or change the water in the tank when doing cartridge cases, just use honey jars as described above, and pour the claggy water away each time.

Alan

 

[25 Sharps]

I am interested that you found U/S sometimes failed to clean the primer pockets.

It is one of the reasons I started to place my cases carefully upright in a honey jar. Gravity helps the clag fall away.

I also found it was most effective to zap the cases in two sessions and give the honey jar a shake around in between, which cleared any lumps of clag held by habit in the pockets. Since adopting that system I haven't had any sludge left in the primer pockets.

Alan

I found the same unless I stood the cases, pocket down, over the plate generating the vibrations in the US, so limited to 50 hornet 25-30 .223, 20 x .308. Then had to keep resetting as max run time was 8 minutes.

All seemed (and still seems) a bit of a faff when you can just Chuck 150 in the wet tumbler and forget about them for a couple of hours

 

[Alantoo]

I found the same unless I stood the cases, pocket down, over the plate generating the vibrations in the US, so limited to 50 hornet 25-30 .223, 20 x .308. Then had to keep resetting as max run time was 8 minutes.

The timer on mine goes up to 20 minutes but I usually only do a couple of honey jars at a time, so 50-ish .308 cases in the two x 8 minute runs.

All seemed (and still seems) a bit of a faff when you can just Chuck 150 in the wet tumbler and forget about them for a couple of hours

Yes but I guess it is swings and roundabouts...the time consuming /individual case handling is either at start or finish of the process...at the other end just pouring honey jar contents into a sieve and rinsing with the U/S....versus the additional bit of a faff separating media from cases with the tumbler/rumbler prior to rinsing.

Hardly a deal breaker either way...

Main thing is to be confident the cases are clean where they need to be.

Alan

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

But I don’t clean out or change the water in the tank when doing cartridge cases, just use honey jars as described above, and pour the claggy water away each time.

Alan

I now use 2 1litre kilner jars side by side in mine (wider mouths than the Asda pickled onion jars I was using before, so more room to get my fingers in to stand the cases upright)
But I don’t chuck the claggy water away each time…(assuming I’ve read that right?) I use the mix for the batch but as that’s usually around 100 cases each jar is only being used twice, four times if you do a double-bubble

We’ve got hard water here too so I use rainwater out of the butt.

I do have a vibratory cleaner upstairs but only used it a couple of times with walnut media …..don’t think stainless had been invented in those days…but it drove me nuts, so the cases only got a phosphor bronze in the neck and a green scotchbrite round the outside as part of the process with a Lee case length trimmer.
cheers

fizz

 

[25 Sharps]

The timer on mine goes up to 20 minutes but I usually only do a couple of honey jars at a time, so 50-ish .308 cases in the two x 8 minute runs.



Yes but I guess it is swings and roundabouts...the time consuming /individual case handling is either at start or finish of the process...at the other end just pouring honey jar contents into a sieve and rinsing with the U/S....versus the additional bit of a faff separating media from cases with the tumbler/rumbler prior to rinsing.

Hardly a deal breaker either way...

Main thing is to be confident the cases are clean where they need to be.

Alan

Yeah, if if has a better US cleaner I may feel differently, it was good but only in smaller batches. And I have to say I like shiny, new-looking brass!

As you say both systems work and that’s the main thing!