Pre DSC 1 shooting skills training

[finnbear270]

Loud AAAAAHHHH! So that’s it.
Has it occurred to any of the mighty intellects supporting this measure that regardless of how well your bundouki is zeroed, crap shooting is crap shooting?

Correctamundo!

 

[Alantoo]

so a bit more regulation will fix it.

Has it occurred to any of the mighty intellects supporting this measure that regardless of how well your bundouki is zeroed, crap shooting is crap shooting?

I think any regulation should be of the shooter and should be to educate them that safety, zeroing their rifle and practice before pointing it at game is their responsibility. Just like a driving test and maintaining the brakes and steering on your car.

Alan

 

[Dunwaters]

I think any regulation should be of the shooter and should be to educate them that safety, zeroing their rifle and practice before pointing it at game is their responsibility. Just like a driving test and maintaining the brakes and steering on your car.

Alan

Agreed but that’s exactly what the various mandatory hunter qualifications were supposed to achieve.
And don’t mention cars, my current chariot is festooned with don’t even think about it stickers.

 

[Ronin]

So

Other than the fundamentals of safety, weapons handling and practicing for the test

Should there be any more to a course ?

Something could be put together pretty easily using circa 50-100 rounds of 22 and twenty rounds of CF for sub £100 per person per day

Factor in a refresher session prior to the actual DSC test (which in my view should remain in the old format) using RF ans CF for additional “at cost” for candidates wanting extra help

I apreciate this may add to the cost but the quality of candidates shooting should be improved if this type of thing is put forward to help them

From my perspective it isn’t a cash cow but something to provide future deer stalkers with the basics for humane killing of their quarry

 

[Alantoo]

Agreed but that’s exactly what the various mandatory hunter qualifications were supposed to achieve.

But my point is that there are not any mandatory hunter qualifications to owning a centre fire....I think basic rifle safety instruction should be mandatory.

Alan

 

[Kalahari]

I think any regulation should be of the shooter and should be to educate them that safety, zeroing their rifle and practice before pointing it at game is their responsibility. Just like a driving test and maintaining the brakes and steering on your car.

Alan

Trouble with this is that many of the countries which have more regulation of shooters and tests and things have a worse safety record than the UK does.

David.

 

[Dunwaters]

But my point is that there are not any mandatory hunter qualifications to owning a centre fire....I think basic rifle safety instruction should be mandatory.

Alan

There are mandatory requirements to going hunting with one in pretty much every country in Europe except yours.
Here for instance if you want a rifle for deer stalking then you must complete both a safety course and HCAP Hunter proficiency course.

 

[Alantoo]

Trouble with this is that many of the countries which have more regulation of shooters and tests and things have a worse safety record than the UK does.

David.

And do you attribute that to too much regulation of shooters and tests or some other cultural characteristic? Driven game hunting or public land access for instance.

I can't see that being instructed about the need for a safe backdrop, and having to demonstrate your grasp of the need for muzzle awareness is going to make you less safety conscious.

A driving test only shows that you are capable of driving with care and consideration...doesn't mean you will always do it. But I believe is better than just been handed the ignition key.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

There are mandatory requirements to going hunting with one in pretty much every country in Europe except yours.

Umm yes, so I gather.

I understood it was the situation in the UK that the OP was describing.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

So

Other than the fundamentals of safety, weapons handling and practicing for the test

Should there be any more to a course ?

Something could be put together pretty easily using circa 50-100 rounds of 22 and twenty rounds of CF for sub £100 per person per day

Factor in a refresher session prior to the actual DSC test (which in my view should remain in the old format) using RF ans CF for additional “at cost” for candidates wanting extra help

I apreciate this may add to the cost but the quality of candidates shooting should be improved if this type of thing is put forward to help them

From my perspective it isn’t a cash cow but something to provide future deer stalkers with the basics for humane killing of their quarry

I think it would be excellent, I wouldn't mind doing it myself...keep me posted!

And I say that having just added another couple of the vegetable bed marauding pheasants to the rack, head/neck shot at 51 and 54 yards with the FAC 22 Air rifle this morning in between posting to this thread.

Alan

 

[Kalahari]

The other thng about people suggesting mandatory safety certificates is that asking for more interference in our sport isn't going to end well. We know what our bureaucracy is like so why ask for more. If it isn't broke .........................!

David.

 

[Alantoo]

The other thng about people suggesting mandatory safety certificates is that asking for more interference in our sport isn't going to end well. We know what our bureaucracy is like so why ask for more. If it isn't broke .........................!

David.

I do understand that point...

But I would hope that a more logical firearms licensing system based on an understanding of mandatory safety theory and practice like a driving test...would then go hand in hand with the "driver" being the one adjudged fit to hold firearms, and remove all the micro management of variations and slots, allowing us to purchase and dispose of rifles just like we can with shotguns or motor cars.

The other countries that you and @dunwater refer to that have more stringent training and testing, do they also have the same restrictive view of subsequent ownership as the UK?

Alan

 

[gixer1]

The other thng about people suggesting mandatory safety certificates is that asking for more interference in our sport isn't going to end well. We know what our bureaucracy is like so why ask for more. If it isn't broke .........................!

David.

I kinda agree with this…not sure we will ever gain more popularity regardless of what we do.

 

[Highfield]

So

Other than the fundamentals of safety, weapons handling and practicing for the test

Should there be any more to a course ?

Something could be put together pretty easily using circa 50-100 rounds of 22 and twenty rounds of CF for sub £100 per person per day

Factor in a refresher session prior to the actual DSC test (which in my view should remain in the old format) using RF ans CF for additional “at cost” for candidates wanting extra help

I apreciate this may add to the cost but the quality of candidates shooting should be improved if this type of thing is put forward to help them

From my perspective it isn’t a cash cow but something to provide future deer stalkers with the basics for humane killing of their quarry

dont basc and bds already offer exactly this. are they popular and do people actually want to do them.

 

[finnbear270]

So

Other than the fundamentals of safety, weapons handling and practicing for the test

Should there be any more to a course ?

Something could be put together pretty easily using circa 50-100 rounds of 22 and twenty rounds of CF for sub £100 per person per day

Factor in a refresher session prior to the actual DSC test (which in my view should remain in the old format) using RF ans CF for additional “at cost” for candidates wanting extra help

I apreciate this may add to the cost but the quality of candidates shooting should be improved if this type of thing is put forward to help them

From my perspective it isn’t a cash cow but something to provide future deer stalkers with the basics for humane killing of their quarry

IanF offers tuition on the lines of what either He, and or the Client deems needed in skills attainment, (He has a military background to say the least), He might be able to give input? I know I learned a cartload from him.

 

[Ronin]

dont basc and bds already offer exactly this. are they popular and do people actually want to do them.

They may do, I don’t believe BDS offer this at present

But if they do that hasn’t been reflected or taken up on by candidates I’ve seen or know of from feedback of other courses

I’m not involved with Basc so can’t comment on that

All DSC courses are underwritten by DMQ, ans run by several organisations

It would be relatively simple to have a working agreement bettween all providers that a “pre dscl” firearms course is running in “xyz” area and let candidates know about it then they can decide in uptake

The fundamental point of DMQ (DSC training) is to bring folk to a minimum standard - one would hope that all providers would support any additional training to provide this in candidates

 

[LarryLightFoot]

I think this could be really helpful, I’m in the catch 22 stage, studying like billio online, FAC not applied for yet as want get my DSC1 in order, about to start the Shootcert process and only had limited 243 experience as a trainee keeper to long ago .
Would relish time spent with an experienced Stalker or marksman to observe and go through all aspects of safety, handling and technique when taking the shot .

 

[Dunwaters]

I do understand that point...

But I would hope that a more logical firearms licensing system based on an understanding of mandatory safety theory and practice like a driving test...would then go hand in hand with the "driver" being the one adjudged fit to hold firearms, and remove all the micro management of variations and slots, allowing us to purchase and dispose of rifles just like we can with shotguns or motor cars.

The other countries that you and @dunwater refer to that have more stringent training and testing, do they also have the same restrictive view of subsequent ownership as the UK?

Alan

our firearms licensing system makes yours seem like the Wild West in comparison.

 

[Oracle]

There are currently 21 Pre DSC1 Courses advertised by BASC on their website to be held throughout the UK within the next 12 months. 3 of those still to be held in 2021 are all “fully booked” so it is clear there is a demand for such courses, though I’m sure take up will vary depending on course location/time of year.

DMQ are the awarding body for DSC Levels 1 & 2. I don’t believe that they have any input or influence in the content of any such Pre DSC1 courses. This is down to the “provider” of said course, be they a shooting organisation or an individual.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I personally think that an offer of a shooting course isn’t a bad idea but then on the day of the course assessment it should be a lot more draconian.

There’s a lot of crap about rifles not being zeroed and rubbish like that. You are turning up as if you were about to shoot a deer, if you aren’t ready then you should fail.

The test should be to turn up, shoot at 100, 70, 40 or whatever. No warm up, no excuses - it’s not that hard a test.

It’s frankly embarrassing that people are getting the DSC1 qualification and struggling to pass the shooting test.

I did the test only level 1 day and there were 4 of us, meant to be relatively experienced stalkers and there was a lot of chat about doing Estate’s culls - 2 of us passed everything, one failed the shooting (because of ‘nerves’) and the other failed the written element.