New brass vs reloaded cases….. insufficient prep?

[Utectok]

Of course you can ignore sd and MV find a load that shoots and crack on do a couple of drop tests to find the MV and go shoot stuff

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Of course you can ignore sd and MV find a load that shoots and crack on do a couple of drop tests to find the MV and go shoot stuff

Given the current costs of components, I would suggest that only spendthrifts load develop without a chronograph. SD is a useful measure of the quality of your reloading processes. I'm currently using one of these -

SMT Solo - Crispin Engineering

Silver Mountain Targets Solo. Available in the UK for £849. A fourth generation personal e-target system that is portable and affordable. It can be used up to 1000 yards away and gives you immediate feedback on the screen of (almost) any device that supports WiFi and a web browser. A range of...

crispinengineering.co.uk

Regards
JCS

 

[Utectok]

Given the current costs of components, I would suggest that only spendthrifts load develop without a chronograph. SD is a useful measure of the quality of your reloading processes. I'm currently using one of these -

SMT Solo - Crispin Engineering

Silver Mountain Targets Solo. Available in the UK for £849. A fourth generation personal e-target system that is portable and affordable. It can be used up to 1000 yards away and gives you immediate feedback on the screen of (almost) any device that supports WiFi and a web browser. A range of...

crispinengineering.co.uk

Regards
JCS

All true but given the scarcity of bullets at the moment it’s a bit scary starting on full blown load development. Whilst it can go sweetly last tricky one I did took 3 powders and 300 bullets….. I can’t by the bullets for love not money now…

 

[Andy seatrout]

Your not looking for a accuracy node your looking for velocity node. First fire a lot of charges at say .2 gn intervals. Chronograph them and find charges with similar MV. There will be a couple of spots where increase in charge won’t affect MV. It’s irrelevant the groups at this stage. Then do some more testing round the node say 3-5 rounds at each charge to test sd and MV. Then test groups and do more tests at different bullet seating depths to tweak accuracy.

Ah ok, I thought the ladder was looking at drop on a target, something that’s tricky to determine on a short range…. On your other point, I’ll see how the chrono performs today before I eBay it or outlay on another…. I liked the associated app with the Caldwell G3 seemed a neat solution

 

[Utectok]

Given the current costs of components, I would suggest that only spendthrifts load develop without a chronograph. SD is a useful measure of the quality of your reloading processes. I'm currently using one of these -

SMT Solo - Crispin Engineering

Silver Mountain Targets Solo. Available in the UK for £849. A fourth generation personal e-target system that is portable and affordable. It can be used up to 1000 yards away and gives you immediate feedback on the screen of (almost) any device that supports WiFi and a web browser. A range of...

crispinengineering.co.uk

Regards
JCS

Also that system looks fantastic btw

 

[Utectok]

Ah ok, I thought the ladder was looking at drop on a target, something that’s tricky to determine on a short range…. On your other point, I’ll see how the chrono performs today before I eBay it or outlay on another…. I liked the associated app with the Caldwell G3 seemed a neat solution

I’d forget optical chronos personally … can be random number generators

 

[NullMac]

Stop the bus !

Looking at your process it seems pretty solid to me. You don’t need to be super fancy to get good sd’s. Yours is plenty good enough.

An sd of 13 is a decent target. 20 is 50% worse. 36 is 3x

However I suspect this a classic case of trying to fix something that is not broken. Your data is coming from an optical chronograph. So your mv readings are affected by a passing cloud etc. They are notorious for giving unreliable readings. You are wasting your time and components. I have got this T shirt.

Either borrow/buy a magnetospeed and get a much better read or ignore mvs. Personally I think we all need one but thats another rant.

Just so we are in the same page as to what are the variables and the metrics

ES/SD is an indication of combustion efficiency. This is a requirement for a med/long range load

Group size at 100 is a function of seating depth

If you have both and it will not group at range that is an indicator of a poor bullet

 

[JTO]

Given the current costs of components, I would suggest that only spendthrifts load develop without a chronograph.

£799 buys a a lot of components.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

£799 buys a a lot of components.

Not nowadays. Also, for me load testing is a half day trip out, so maximising each outing is essential.
Regards
JCS

 

[JTO]

Not nowadays.

????????????

 

[Andy seatrout]

Stop the bus !

Looking at your process it seems pretty solid to me. You don’t need to be super fancy to get good sd’s. Yours is plenty good enough.

An sd of 13 is a decent target. 20 is 50% worse. 36 is 3x

However I suspect this a classic case of trying to fix something that is not broken. Your data is coming from an optical chronograph. So your mv readings are affected by a passing cloud etc. They are notorious for giving unreliable readings. You are wasting your time and components. I have got this T shirt.

Either borrow/buy a magnetospeed and get a much better read or ignore mvs. Personally I think we all need one but thats another rant.

Just so we are in the same page as to what are the variables and the metrics

ES/SD is an indication of combustion efficiency. This is a requirement for a med/long range load

Group size at 100 is a function of seating depth

If you have both and it will not group at range that is an indicator of a poor bullet

Rain stopped play to day entirely….. went darker and darker didn’t get any sensible readings….. might be spending more money….

 

[Milligan]

I find new Lapau 6.5 swede brass very tight on the neck and my reloads are a lot wider. I now expand the neck of the new brass but I still don’t get it to shoot as well as reloads. I’d be a bit suspicious of any results from unfired brass

Agree with this.
Cleaning etc won't cause what you are seeing but a change in neck consistency will, that includes tension and trim but I doubt trim length is a factor in this cal at this number of firings.

 

[Utectok]

Honestly I think a lot of hunters just need a group that shoots out to 250-300m so really low sd and ES are not really an issue. If you can match most factory loads with an sd 15-20 and Es of 30-50 you will actually kill alot of deer at normal ranges. Like I say get a load that shoots well at 100 then drop test it at 300m and that’s your dope sorted. No chronograph needed..

If you want to go down the sd rabbit hole……
And I find it satisfying developing a load with sd in single didgets and es in the 20s but it doesn’t kill any more deer 99% of which I shoot under 300m anyway!

 

[NullMac]

Honestly I think a lot of hunters just need a group that shoots out to 250-300m so really low sd and ES are not really an issue. If you can match most factory loads with an sd 15-20 and Es of 30-50 you will actually kill alot of deer at normal ranges. Like I say get a load that shoots well at 100 then drop test it at 300m and that’s your dope sorted. No chronograph needed..

If you want to go down the sd rabbit hole……
And I find it satisfying developing a load with sd in single didgets and es in the 20s but it doesn’t kill any more deer 99% of which I shoot under 300m anyway!

That’s one approach that works. Either go that way or pay up for a chrony, but don’t base development on an old style optical chrony. If you are like me you end up shooting the damn things anyway

 

[Andy seatrout]

Well I got it wrong again ; I’ve a Caldwell G2 ballistic precision (Oxymoron?) chronograph….. the scanners work by looking down rather than up….

It did have good reviews….

 

[Milligan]

Well I got it wrong again ; I’ve a Caldwell G2 ballistic precision (Oxymoron?) chronograph….. the scanners work by looking down rather than up….

It did have good reviews….

I would just go based on groups. Velocity is useful to know but the sd and es are not terribly helpful in this context.

P.s. I see some reference to roll crimps above. Personally I wouldn't attempt to roll a bullet that doesn't have a cannelure

 

[Andy seatrout]

I would just go based on groups. Velocity is useful to know but the sd and es are not terribly helpful in this context.

P.s. I see some reference to roll crimps above. Personally I wouldn't attempt to roll a bullet that doesn't have a cannelure

Hi, fortunately the Hornady SST do have one…. I’ve still not got out to test…

Went stalking instead this afternoon ( no score but saw a few with no safe backstop ( as ever !)

 

[Milligan]

Hi, fortunately the Hornady SST do have one…. I’ve still not got out to test…

Went stalking instead this afternoon ( no score but saw a few with no safe backstop ( as ever !)

Sure, but I found the SSt cannelure wasn't in the right place..

 

[Andy seatrout]

Sure, but I found the SSt cannelure wasn't in the right place..

It worked for me with 2.905’’ COL?

 

[TomChi89]

I tumble brass each time, trim as necessary. If I have an access to annealer I will also anneal them each time. This way I'm getting quite consistent results no matter if a new brass or fired few times.