Vista Outdoor and the dangers of monopolies

User00040

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

Not inteding to stoke the great primer worries but something that needs to be taken into account is that a single company (Vista Outdoor) now owns 3 of the 4 (Federal, CCI and Remington) primer manufacturing plants in the USA. Winchester (owned by Olin Corp) is the 4th.

Chart the stocks of Vista and you'll see they have done very well since Covid and Sleepy Joe happened.

Screenshot_20220326-121610_Google.webp

They recently announced that they are donating one million rounds to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, whilst a noble act on it's own, is probably engineered to get head nods from Congress.


Another interesting fact is their announcement that they are sitting on a billion dollars worth of backorder on ammunition sales...


Look closely and you'll see 'ammo subscriptions' which are focused on a contiued shortage, which they only stand to benefit from.

UK importers and RFD's are going to be a bit of a jam if the Ukraine thing drags on and countries such as Germany start putting big orders into RUAG (who are responsible for much of the ammi components used by European manufacturers, maybe bar the Nammo Group Commercial Brands - Nammo but I suspect there is some interdependency).

So, a lack of sources from both Europe and America. The most sensible place to start sourcing from? Probably ADI of Australia.

Their company, Outback Ammo Australian Outback – Extreme Performance – Whatever the Weather , is offering ammuntion made with ADI's world famous powder (think the currently REACH-banned Varget AKA ADI 2208) and loaded with Sierra Bullets, but only in .308 and .223.

Considering the (presumably small) demand for centrefire rifle ammunition in the UK, it seems an effort to set up a small production plant like Belmont Ammuntion of NZ https://belmontammo.co.nz/ which uses imported components, would not prove profitable.

None of this is going to matter of course, if the 'lead free' (but not really, nearly all primers use lead, which gets vapourised when you fire the rifle ;)... shame that the only companies who make lead free primers are the aforementioned Federal and, Murom of Russia, some interesting reading here Friction Effects of Lead-Based and Lead-Free Primers in 5.56mm NATO ) ammo paranoia comes into law...

I suspect that if it does, the next step from Westminster abd Holyrood will be a reloading ban, so maybe we should stop worrying about component shortages, and use them while we still can!

Then happily pay £100+ for a box of 20 rounds, then again, money might not be worth very much anymore by then!

Screenshot_20220326-125525_Chrome.webp
 
Hi all,

Not inteding to stoke the great primer worries but something that needs to be taken into account is that a single company (Vista Outdoor) now owns 3 of the 4 (Federal, CCI and Remington) primer manufacturing plants in the USA. Winchester (owned by Olin Corp) is the 4th.

Chart the stocks of Vista and you'll see they have done very well since Covid and Sleepy Joe happened.

View attachment 249576

They recently announced that they are donating one million rounds to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, whilst a noble act on it's own, is probably engineered to get head nods from Congress.


Another interesting fact is their announcement that they are sitting on a billion dollars worth of backorder on ammunition sales...


Look closely and you'll see 'ammo subscriptions' which are focused on a contiued shortage, which they only stand to benefit from.

UK importers and RFD's are going to be a bit of a jam if the Ukraine thing drags on and countries such as Germany start putting big orders into RUAG (who are responsible for much of the ammi components used by European manufacturers, maybe bar the Nammo Group Commercial Brands - Nammo but I suspect there is some interdependency).

So, a lack of sources from both Europe and America. The most sensible place to start sourcing from? Probably ADI of Australia.

Their company, Outback Ammo Australian Outback – Extreme Performance – Whatever the Weather , is offering ammuntion made with ADI's world famous powder (think the currently REACH-banned Varget AKA ADI 2208) and loaded with Sierra Bullets, but only in .308 and .223.

Considering the (presumably small) demand for centrefire rifle ammunition in the UK, it seems an effort to set up a small production plant like Belmont Ammuntion of NZ https://belmontammo.co.nz/ which uses imported components, would not prove profitable.

None of this is going to matter of course, if the 'lead free' (but not really, nearly all primers use lead, which gets vapourised when you fire the rifle ;)... shame that the only companies who make lead free primers are the aforementioned Federal and, Murom of Russia, some interesting reading here Friction Effects of Lead-Based and Lead-Free Primers in 5.56mm NATO ) ammo paranoia comes into law...

I suspect that if it does, the next step from Westminster abd Holyrood will be a reloading ban, so maybe we should stop worrying about component shortages, and use them while we still can!

Then happily pay £100+ for a box of 20 rounds, then again, money might not be worth very much anymore by then!

View attachment 249578
IDC

I
Don't
Care :popcorn:
 
Lead in primers in indoor ranges and for those who staff the range has long been known as a possible health risk as has lead or lead cored bullets used in indoor ranges to those who staff the range. Even sweeping up afterwards has that same risk as well as being present when firing is taking place. For the outdoor shooter any supposed problem is likely so small as not to be relevant.
 
Hi all,

Not inteding to stoke the great primer worries but something that needs to be taken into account is that a single company (Vista Outdoor) now owns 3 of the 4 (Federal, CCI and Remington) primer manufacturing plants in the USA. Winchester (owned by Olin Corp) is the 4th.

Chart the stocks of Vista and you'll see they have done very well since Covid and Sleepy Joe happened.

View attachment 249576

They recently announced that they are donating one million rounds to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, whilst a noble act on it's own, is probably engineered to get head nods from Congress.


Another interesting fact is their announcement that they are sitting on a billion dollars worth of backorder on ammunition sales...


Look closely and you'll see 'ammo subscriptions' which are focused on a contiued shortage, which they only stand to benefit from.

UK importers and RFD's are going to be a bit of a jam if the Ukraine thing drags on and countries such as Germany start putting big orders into RUAG (who are responsible for much of the ammi components used by European manufacturers, maybe bar the Nammo Group Commercial Brands - Nammo but I suspect there is some interdependency).

So, a lack of sources from both Europe and America. The most sensible place to start sourcing from? Probably ADI of Australia.

Their company, Outback Ammo Australian Outback – Extreme Performance – Whatever the Weather , is offering ammuntion made with ADI's world famous powder (think the currently REACH-banned Varget AKA ADI 2208) and loaded with Sierra Bullets, but only in .308 and .223.

Considering the (presumably small) demand for centrefire rifle ammunition in the UK, it seems an effort to set up a small production plant like Belmont Ammuntion of NZ https://belmontammo.co.nz/ which uses imported components, would not prove profitable.

None of this is going to matter of course, if the 'lead free' (but not really, nearly all primers use lead, which gets vapourised when you fire the rifle ;)... shame that the only companies who make lead free primers are the aforementioned Federal and, Murom of Russia, some interesting reading here Friction Effects of Lead-Based and Lead-Free Primers in 5.56mm NATO ) ammo paranoia comes into law...

I suspect that if it does, the next step from Westminster abd Holyrood will be a reloading ban, so maybe we should stop worrying about component shortages, and use them while we still can!

Then happily pay £100+ for a box of 20 rounds, then again, money might not be worth very much anymore by then!

View attachment 249578
I appreciate your concerns. And some of the your worries may be justified on the short term.
But TBH the past has taught us that demand will eventually produce supply.
 
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There are manufacturers outside the US too.
Indeed, I have Magtech primers, Magtech and PPU cases, PPU, Lapua and MME bullets and Viht powder, though may try Lovex and Ramshot. None of these is made in the USA, though Ramshot is US-owned.

I genuinely have nothing against US-made anything, I own a Ruger 10/22, but it seems to be very expensive and hard to get. I don't avoid US stuff but other manufacturers seem to fit my needs, my budget and be available.

The Czechs, the Swiss, the Germans, the Italians, the Finns and now the Serbians seem to make some fine firearms and components.

I'd suggest our market is so small, we are largely an irrelevance to most manufacturers, and the US market can certainly sustain itself without ever exporting anything.
 
Lead in primers in indoor ranges and for those who staff the range has long been known as a possible health risk as has lead or lead cored bullets used in indoor ranges to those who staff the range. Even sweeping up afterwards has that same risk as well as being present when firing is taking place. For the outdoor shooter any supposed problem is likely so small as not to be relevant.
that is why oiled dry sweep works plus a hepa mask if your really worried
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, things are loosening up here which usually spells drought for the UK. My girlfriend stocked up on her favorite Hornady 168 grain BTHP Match to feed her 308. They were at the ranch store, remarkably, at the same price WalMart sold them 5 years ago.~Muir
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, things are loosening up here which usually spells drought for the UK. My girlfriend stocked up on her favorite Hornady 168 grain BTHP Match to feed her 308. They were at the ranch store, remarkably, at the same price WalMart sold them 5 years ago.~Muir

I find it very cool how random places in certain states are selling ammo/reloading supplies.

Have heard about hardware stores, fuel (gas) stations, and even a chemists (drug store)!
 
I find it very cool how random places in certain states are selling ammo/reloading supplies.

Have heard about hardware stores, fuel (gas) stations, and even a chemists (drug store)!
True. I worked at a small store when I was young and we sold 22LR and shotgun shells along with cigarettes, newspapers and goceries. ~Muir
 
True. I worked at a small store when I was young and we sold 22LR and shotgun shells along with cigarettes, newspapers and goceries. ~Muir
Several years ago (probably over 10) I went to a WalMart in Washington state and saw a pile of 40cal ammo for sale. And I mean a PILE stacked up in steel ammo cans in the middle of a isle like you would see cases Coca Cola being sold here.
 
Several years ago (probably over 10) I went to a WalMart in Washington state and saw a pile of 40cal ammo for sale. And I mean a PILE stacked up in steel ammo cans in the middle of a isle like you would see cases Coca Cola being sold here.
I remember buying Remington Peters 22LR off of WalMart pallets like that when I got my first job out of college. I'd buy 2 bricks every time I went in. ($7/500 back then) In other shops there are still such displays to be found, but not WalMart. ~Muir
 
Yes, I believe that WalMart have gone a bit funny with regard to selling ammo - particularly pistol ammo. This may be dependent on state.
 
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