The 'Lead Free' lie

[Tim.243]

Sorry Tim, I have to query the truth of this tale.
Reason is simple, although I believe the sarcasm of a subbie, I find the Union jack bit not really believable on a piling site which would be more likely to be flying the Irish tricolour. In fact I have never seen a flag on any.piling site. So sorry Tim as they say on the show it's a lie.

Are you quoting from your previous user name as The Forth Horse Man or some one telling lies?

 

[NP435]

Some range personnel and police instructors in Berlin, Germany claim to have taken long-term damage from inhaling lead contaminated fumes over an extended period of time. This went as far that there was no range training for the police for some time. I cannot say if they could ever prove their case. I didn't follow it up.

Perhaps in on a indoor range with not enough ventilation, seems logical but I have never seen evidence to quote here.

 

[Smellydog]

Interesting article relating to copper!

View attachment 254103

Thank you.
Been saying it for a while.
Smoke and mirrors all the time!
I'm all for change, just not in response to vegans and anti hunting groups that live in an artificial sanitized world.

 

[shakey jake]

Interesting article relating to copper!

View attachment 254103

so unlike lead we need copper just not too much. as even more people drink water from copper pipes than drink from lead im definatly happier eating lead shot game, not that i wont eat lead shot but i will change over soon

 

[LuckyEddie]

I’m curious as to what happens to the copper left in the ground.
Will it react to other compounds/elements in the ground and cause problems in the future.
How will the copper leaching into the ground be mitigated on ranges?

Copper fear prompts Coatbridge school water pipe change

A council denies being slow to act over reports of blue water and high copper levels at a school campus.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Stevie/P]

Sorry Tim, I have to query the truth of this tale.
Reason is simple, although I believe the sarcasm of a subbie, I find the Union jack bit not really believable on a piling site which would be more likely to be flying the Irish tricolour. In fact I have never seen a flag on any.piling site. So sorry Tim as they say on the show it's a lie.

Deleted

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Unless you are doing something wrong the primers do not enter the meat and the food chain

Lead free Ammo is a Food Standards issue
NOT and environmental issue

95-100% weight retention in one lump is the aim to remove the metal from the carcase
Any metal.
Doesn't matter whether you use lead, copper, brass or depleted uranium.....AGHE's and retailers do not want metal in carcases.
Its just compounded by the fact that Lead is a known toxin with persistent and cumulative characteristics with "NO KNOWN SAFE LEVEL IN THE HUMAN BODY"

The end

 

[Liveonce]

NOT and environmental issue

The end

is not lead ammo in the environment also one of the issues as the claim is, Raptors are dying as a consequence of it.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

well that is a fair point but significantly less impact than the food standards element

 

[Heym SR20]

Some interesting articles which include the links to the background scientific research

The Natural History Museum

Eagles in the USA poisoned by widespread lead pollution

Almost half of all American bald and golden eagles are being poisoned by lead.

www.nhm.ac.uk

And from University of Cambridge

Birds of prey populations suppressed by lead poisoning from gun ammo

New study uses data on lead levels in the livers of thousands of dead raptors to calculate the impact of lead poisoning on population size.

www.cam.ac.uk

These are recent publications that carry big weight with the powers that be based autopsies and blood samples from a large sample of raptors all showing significantly enhanced levels of lead in their bodies.

Of course this may have come from them breathing in lead fumes by flying to piston engined aircraft burning leaded petrol, or grating lead fragments off a church roof, but the major source will be ingestion of lead particles from eating remains of lead shot animals and birds.

It is not a “lead free” lie, there is clear evidence that lead is harmful. No lead or other metals should be in the human food chain, and as conservationists first and foremost and responsible hunters, given the clear evidence now available there is no justification for causing harm to protected animals and birds through lead ammunition, especially now that there are viable alternatives.

And I deliberately use the word conservationist, as that is what all hunters should be - we value our wildlife, protect and conserve it and are able to shoot a sustainable surplus. If you don’t agree with this, you shouldn’t be hunting or shooting in my view.

 

[308tikka]

All this noise about something that is not going to be stopped!

So really its the same old speech from the usual people!

As gun / firearms owners we will experience a lot more hurdles to jump if we want to carry on in the years to come and those who dont adapt and keep stuck on their ways will be left behind and i am afraid its as simple as that.

Get your head around it, adapt and crack on!

As you all know, for many many years i have shot non lead projectiles through personal choice, it works for me!

Those of you who are dug in and dont want to change because your in leads done me no harm brigade , crack on

We’ll see what happens when the ban comes!

Ill happily shoot non-lead for landowners who require it.

But ill also happily wait for enough Parliamentary time to be set side for any future ‘ban’ yet to be drafted or agreed.... theres rather a lot of important stuff going on right now.

Ill wager a tray of lead styphnate primers, any Eng&Wal legislation relating to firearms and ammunition wont be narrowed to merely the banning of lead components.

 

[Heym SR20]

The whole point of the voluntary phasing out of lead ammo for shooting game animals and birds is to take the wind out of sails of any parliamentary proposals.

In the articles I referenced above there are statements to the effect that despite shooting organisations calling for voluntary switch, the vast majority of game is still shot with lead. In other words it’s implying that those involved in shooting are not willing to get their own house in order so rather requires legislation.

The shooting organisations voluntary phasing out was intended to prevent such an outcome, and thus it is likely that any legislation will provide a complete ban - because that is far simpler for Parliament to do and they won’t understand nor care less about the finer points of old guns, target shooting etc

 

[NP435]

is not lead ammo in the environment also one of the issues as the claim is, Raptors are dying as a consequence of it.

The land where I have shot thousands of prairie dog has more eagle, hawk, badger, swift fox and assorted other carrion eaters than any place I have found them. If lead in the carcass was a major issue I think the numbers would show this. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was the issue in condor eggs in the USA, and the data from inner city exposure I have not researched. Leaded gas has been gone for a very long time in this country.

 

[Liveonce]

The land where I have shot thousands of prairie dog has more eagle, hawk, badger, swift fox and assorted other carrion eaters than any place I have found them. If lead in the carcass was a major issue I think the numbers would show this. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was the issue in condor eggs in the USA, and the data from inner city exposure I have not researched. Leaded gas has been gone for a very long time in this country.

point being, it was not just the human health issue they are concerned with, and the environmental concern potentially has a far greater scope for impacting on shooting than the human health issue.
The other shooting activities combined (clays, pest, target shooting etc) could survive without game shooting, but could game shooting survive, support, the industry without the other shooting activities, I doubt it.

 

[NP435]

point being, it was not just the human health issue they are concerned with, and the environmental concern potentially has a far greater scope for impacting on shooting than the human health issue.
The other shooting activities combined (clays, pest, target shooting etc) could survive without game shooting, but could game shooting survive, support, the industry without the other shooting activities, I doubt it.

Yes I think I understand the point of the post.

 

[Heym SR20]

The land where I have shot thousands of prairie dog has more eagle, hawk, badger, swift fox and assorted other carrion eaters than any place I have found them. If lead in the carcass was a major issue I think the numbers would show this. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was the issue in condor eggs in the USA, and the data from inner city exposure I have not researched. Leaded gas has been gone for a very long time in this country.

Its because of the food. It's a bit like saying that you have the only supermarket in the whole district and its only open a couple of days a month - of course you will find everybody flocking to it when there is an abundance of free food.

 

[Acm]

I wouldn’t go back to lead for deer culling now! I use the Barnes lrx in .270+7mm rm and ttsx in .22.250 and they are great. Shot a lot of deer now with them and can honestly say there’s not been one where I thought lead would be better.

What weight Barnes are you using in the .22-250 and what is your rifle twist rate if you don’t mind me asking.
Thanks!

 

[Ryan Malcolm]

People forget we all had lead water pipes

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

People forget we all had lead water pipes

If i has a £ for every time thats been mentioned

 

[25 Sharps]

Unless you are doing something wrong the primers do not enter the meat and the food chain

Lead free Ammo is a Food Standards issue
NOT and environmental issue

95-100% weight retention in one lump is the aim to remove the metal from the carcase
Any metal.
Doesn't matter whether you use lead, copper, brass or depleted uranium.....AGHE's and retailers do not want metal in carcases.
Its just compounded by the fact that Lead is a known toxin with persistent and cumulative characteristics with "NO KNOWN SAFE LEVEL IN THE HUMAN BODY"

The end

Not the end.

It’s as much a potential environmental issue (carrion, waterfowl) as it is a food safety one. Why do you always ignore that?