Thoughts on BASC's new stance on Police Firearms Licensing Departments!

[TomTalks]

Is it my imagination or is BASC seemingly and suddenly getting openly abrasive with police firearms licensing?
Genuinely interested as my own FAC variation journey (The first half of 2022) motivated me to start podcasting on the topic.....
Also to meet East Hants MP, Hants&IoW - PCC/Senior Police/Head of FAC Dept.....etc

Is this driven by a genuine 8% drop in licenses being the fault of police firearms licensing departments?
- Or have we simply not seen licensing catch up yet?

Is there an associated loss of BASC members alongside the UK license numbers?
Ergo, it has become a higher priority for BASC?
Just a question, I have no idea but something appears to have changed radically at BASC HQ

Is it something else?

Do you think this stance will help or hinder us?

 

[finnbear270]

EH?, I must have been asleep when that went past.

 

[TomTalks]

EH?, I must have been asleep when that went past.

BASC - firearms-licensing-failures-are-impeding-the-shooting-sector

Shooting UK - basc-blasts-police-failures-for-gun-licence-declines-133548

 

[One on top of two]

Well I would hardly call it a blasting .

I’ve heard a harsher telling off from a mother to a toddler

Our shooting orgs have have no teeth at all , it’s all nothing but mouthing off and lip service.
BASC have never taken on , defended and won a legal case since its inception .

It is what it is .

 

[finnbear270]

I just moved into North Wales's jurisdiction from Cheshire, An increase to 24 days for a variation, from just two or three.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC is continuing to fight for improvements in firearms licensing and a review of firearms licensing fees is taking place through a Fees Working Group, which includes representatives from BASC and the British Shooting Sports Council, and our position is as follows:

• The group will follow the 2014 Fees Working Group model of evidence-based costings of the licensing process.
• The group will identify and implement cost-saving efficiencies, delivered by the growing use of IT in the licensing process.
• The purpose of the system is to protect public safety and as such the public purse should pay a proportion of any fee.
• Ministers and the police have committed to a process that could deliver a 10-year certificate, providing cost savings and reducing the burden on the departments. The group needs to engage with this policy objective.
• There are 43 licensing authorities in England and Wales offering widely divergent levels of service, different interpretations and no standard training. This promotes inconsistencies and compromises public safety. The group needs to address this urgently.

More information here:

BASC outlines key demands in licensing fees review

BASC will not accept “rewarding failure” in the upcoming review of firearms licensing fees in England, Scotland and Wales.

basc.org.uk

 

[timbrayford]

BASC is continuing to fight for improvements in firearms licensing and a review of firearms licensing fees is taking place through a Fees Working Group, which includes representatives from BASC and the British Shooting Sports Council, and our position is as follows:

• The group will follow the 2014 Fees Working Group model of evidence-based costings of the licensing process.
• The group will identify and implement cost-saving efficiencies, delivered by the growing use of IT in the licensing process.
• The purpose of the system is to protect public safety and as such the public purse should pay a proportion of any fee.
• Ministers and the police have committed to a process that could deliver a 10-year certificate, providing cost savings and reducing the burden on the departments. The group needs to engage with this policy objective.
• There are 43 licensing authorities in England and Wales offering widely divergent levels of service, different interpretations and no standard training. This promotes inconsistencies and compromises public safety. The group needs to address this urgently.

More information here:

BASC outlines key demands in licensing fees review

BASC will not accept “rewarding failure” in the upcoming review of firearms licensing fees in England, Scotland and Wales.

basc.org.uk

Just imagine the chaos and inefficiencies of 43 different authorities issuing driving licenses!

 

[Kalahari]

Just imagine the chaos and inefficiencies of 43 different authorities issuing driving licenses!

Have you dealt with DVLA lately?

David.

 

[kes]

There was a chat between the Police and BASC recently where the Police were at fault (I apologise for not remembering detail) and the conclusion was there was "no need to go to war over it".

I would like to see BASC go to war with good intent but its as likely as finding an ice cream at the coop in this temperature.
Could be they are feeling the pinch and that would also be a good thing, as it might call into question the value of BASC's strategies, and the stale taste of its press releases.

Instead of what is said above (note 2014, now 2022) BASC and others should state quite explicitly that the laughable 'service' received by shooters is an embarrassment when consistency should be driven by a National Guidance in the name of Public Safety and which is not open to interpretation. Levels of service delivered in this area should be part of a Chief Constables performance assessment for annual reviews of his position by the inspectorate from HO, feeding into the wider review.

Remember the attempts to stifle ACPO - Teresa Mays personal battle with a rebellious pack of Chief Constables ? If you don't 'go to war' you will not win any concessions to logic and fairness.

 

[EMcC]

I've just decided not to re-new my membership to BASC.
I can't remember having had any thing from them other than the magazine and fees reminder so thought that was it.
I don't know how long I've been a member but my No is/was only six figures long so must have been a while.
Somebody kindly posted a mention of an Insurance company that covered everything that BASC covered so that was the thing that helped me make my mind up.
Good luck to the rest of you.

 

[Shootgun]

Somebody kindly posted a mention of an Insurance company that covered everything that BASC covered so that was the thing that helped me make my mind up.
Good luck to the rest of you.

Which company is that please?

My BASC membership is due August 1st and thinking of canceling as well…

 

[palmer_mike]

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[timbrayford]

Have you dealt with DVLA lately?

David.

Yes, chaotic due to COVID but not as bad as police FLDs at the moment. So which is easier, getting just one organisation to improve or all 43 different ones?

 

[paultap]

I think that Basc made a big mistake in dropping the part of the insurance that would fund and defend a members case to court level against a police force, if it was necessary and if the member had a valid case. A lot of members (myself included) only really joined for the insurance cover in the first place.

I know of a case where previously Basc has defended a members right to own a semi automatic pistol which was wanted for humane dispatch purposes. The police force in question would not issue permission for this type of pistol, basically citing any number of reasons that they could think of for not granting permission. Basc‘s appointed legal team, took on the case against the police and won in court. The police were then obliged to issue the necessary permission. This showed the police force involved that they could not just interpret firearms law as they saw fit and it laid down a good checks and balance process on this particular Police force.

Perhaps Basc aught to consider consulting its members about it and reinstate this part of the insurance, even if it involved a modest membership price increase. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium on my membership for this.

I have previously been helped by the Basc when I wanted a change of condition from target shooting to deer stalking, this was about 9 years ago now. The FEO involved told me that I would not be granted permission and that I would be required to have a “mentor” etc, the whole process was to take about 18 months. I knew this to be nonsense. Basc intervened and phoned the police force on my behalf to point this out. I was granted permission and had my certificate back within two weeks.

Basc has also given me good advice on questions that I have asked around variations and other issues.

I will criticise Basc when I think the criticism is deserved, but I will acknowledge that the organisation has been very helpful to me in the past also.

 

[TomTalks]

I think that Basc made a big mistake in dropping the part of the insurance that would fund and defend a members case to court level against a police force, if it was necessary and if the member had a valid case. A lot of members (myself included) only really joined for the insurance cover in the first place.

I did not realise this element of the insurance had been removed, this single item was a key reason I originally joined back in the nineties! Back then we openly opposed improper intent to disrupt license grants and renewals.

Perhaps Basc aught to consider consulting its members about it and reinstate this part of the insurance, even if it involved a modest membership price increase. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium on my membership for this.

Completely agree, I'll be watching this up until renewal comes around.

Basc has also given me good advice on questions that I have asked around variations and other issues.

Agreed, I too have received some very useful information from BASC, most recently, pertaining to a variation I submitted Feb 2022 which was going to take 155 days before it was 'considered' by my local firearms licensing department.
However! Whilst the information from BASC was certainly helpful, I ran point in all engagements with firearms licensing, police and local MP on the topic.
Out of my most recent engagement (A good chat with BASC) I received great information and a .....let us know how you get on.... outcome.
Whilst my interpretation may be incorrect, there was a sense that BASC were less willing to engage on our individual behalf compared to times past.

Whilst BASC remain a good source of up to date information, and, advice has helped, school is still out with regards to renewal, considering, what effectively is legal cost cover has gone, and willingness to engage has dwindled....


What is the answer?
Write to BASC and request reinstatement of legal insurance and greater member engagement?
Do we need another association? Might this dilute their effectiveness?
Something else?

 

[Cymro]

I just moved into North Wales's jurisdiction from Cheshire, An increase to 24 days for a variation, from just two or three.

South Wales have had my variation 8 weeks today - was told last week it hasn’t been looked at yet and at least 20 others before mine will be considered- will be lucky to get it before my DSC1 in October at this rate

 

[TomTalks]

South Wales have had my variation 8 weeks today - was told last week it hasn’t been looked at yet and at least 20 others before mine will be considered- will be lucky to get it before my DSC1 in October at this rate

Just messaged you...

 

[JTO]

Is there an associated loss of BASC members alongside the UK license numbers?
Ergo, it has become a higher priority for BASC?

This would be their main concern, I think.

 

[JTO]

Perhaps Basc aught to consider consulting its members about it and reinstate this part of the insurance, even if it involved a modest membership price increase. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium on my membership for this.

How much did the BASC membership fee drop when legal cover was ended?
Perhaps it could go up by the same amount if legal cover was reinstated.

 

[terrier1]

Perhaps Basc aught to consider consulting its members about it and reinstate this part of the insurance, even if it involved a modest membership price increase. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium on my membership for this.

This is the biggest problem with BASC if they had consulted their members over medical letters dropping parts of their insurance going lead free they would not be in the mess they are in now.