BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

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VSS said:
Why do they?
A response to the consultation along the lines of "deer need killing, let's crack on with it" is going to gain precisely nothing. In fact, it would probably be discounted as the ravings of a bloodthirsty lunatic.
If you want your response to count you've got to dress up what you want to say in the way that they want to hear it. Get your point across by all means, but in a palatable and justifiable way. We are, after all, hoping that some public money is going to flow into stalkers' pockets as a result of this.

Incidentally, when completing the consultation questionnaire, how many of you ticked the box requesting anonymity?
(And if so, why?).
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The lack of enthusiasm from surrounding stalkers makes you like it!

I have always been happy plodding on, but year after year i am working harder, killing more and more because matey next door cant be arsed!

I now shoot on sight, be it a 20 point stag, spiker or calf, if its a red deer and in season and safe its on the deck!

If i see a group of 8 I’ll be proper up the arse of 6 are not on the deck at least.

I thack them hard, feed them in and thack them again and repeat!
 
VSS said:
No.
Not because there's anything wrong with his point of view, but it is somewhat biased towards killing deer, which isn't what the BDS is all about. The remit of the BDS is wider reaching than that, so requires someone with a somewhat broader outlook.
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Come on VSS you must know my suggestion was soaked in irony??

Nothing wrong with the current BDS Chairman.

K
 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
The lack of enthusiasm from surrounding stalkers makes you like it!

I have always been happy plodding on, but year after year i am working harder, killing more and more because matey next door cant be arsed!

I now shoot on sight, be it a 20 point stag, spiker or calf, if its a red deer and in season and safe its on the deck!

If i see a group of 8 I’ll be proper up the arse of 6 are not on the deck at least.

I thack them hard, feed them in and thack them again and repeat!
Click to expand...
Yes, that's fine, and I totally get it.
But to get the best out of this consultation document you've got to go a step further than simply saying what you think. It's got to be a reasoned argument that justifies your stance and makes it appealing to the decision makers and the public purse.

If you were wise enough NOT to tick the anonymity box then, if your arguments carry weight, they may well come back to you for further discussion and clarification, which would give you an additional opportunity to influence the strategy.
 
VSS said:
Yes, that's fine, and I totally get it.
But to get the best out of this consultation document you've got to go a step further than simply saying what you think. It's got to be a reasoned argument that justifies your stance and makes it appealing to the decision makers and the public purse.

If you were wise enough NOT to tick the anonymity box then, if your arguments carry weight, they may well come back to you for further discussion and clarification, which would give you an additional opportunity to influence the strategy.
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I ticked no such box 👌

I would welcome 🙏 a further black and white conversation on the subject!
 
foxhunter said:
Please explain as I am at a loss. Surely getting numbers is helping or am I missing something.

Shooting numbers is better than shooting nothing seeing as the aim is to reduce the population.
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Shooting young females is optimal, shooting males doesn't make a jot of difference to large scale population reduction
 
timbrayford said:
Shooting young females is optimal, shooting males doesn't make a jot of difference to large scale population reduction
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Exactly this^^^
If there were 100 deer in a forest 50:50 sex ratio, and you shot 98% of the males, by the same time next year there'd still be 100 deer in the forest. If, however, you shot 98% of the females, then by the same time the following year there'd be only 52 deer in the forest.
(OK, so that's a bit simplistic, but you get the idea).
 
VSS said:
Exactly this^^^
If there were 100 deer in a forest 50:50 sex ratio, and you shot 98% of the males, by the same time next year there'd still be 100 deer in the forest. If, however, you shot 98% of the females, then by the same time the following year there'd be only 52 deer in the forest.
(OK, so that's a bit simplistic, but you get the idea).
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But in reality you need to 65-75% of the females to reduce the numbers!

But then again females dont have antler so really males take priority!

Or that is what it seems like!
 
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Norfolk Deer Search said:
The lack of enthusiasm from surrounding stalkers makes you like it!

I have always been happy plodding on, but year after year i am working harder, killing more and more because matey next door cant be arsed!

I now shoot on sight, be it a 20 point stag, spiker or calf, if its a red deer and in season and safe its on the deck!

If i see a group of 8 I’ll be proper up the arse of 6 are not on the deck at least.

I thack them hard, feed them in and thack them again and repeat!
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Presuming you are not the landowner or have any crops of your own, why are you so bothered? It comes across as if you almost have a hatred of red deer? Maybe chill and go fishing ?
 
mudman said:
Presuming you are not the landowner or have any crops of your own, why are you so bothered? It comes across as if you almost have a hatred of red deer? Maybe chill and go fishing ?
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The problem that most don't grasp when you ask for stalking permission and you are given said permission, you are there to do a job which to manage/ kill deer call it what you like!

The land owner puts his trust in me to get the job done to the best of my ability!

Over the last few years the numbers have become uncontrollable, other local stalkers are not pulling their weight hence my stance is now shoot on sight and as many as i can!

If people dont like my stance on it they can do one, i dont care!
 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
The problem that most don't grasp when you ask for stalking permission and you are given said permission, you are there to do a job which to manage/ kill deer call it what you like!

The land owner puts his trust in me to get the job done to the best of my ability!

Over the last few years the numbers have become uncontrollable, other local stalkers are not pulling their weight hence my stance is now shoot on sight and as many as i can!
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If you're there to do a job then the landowner should pay you to get on and do it, and as you so rightly point out you need to get the numbers to prove your worth.
If, however, you have a recreational stalking "permission" then you're not paid to manage the deer and you can shoot as many or as few as you like.
 
VSS said:
If you're there to do a job then the landowner should pay you to get on and do it, and as you so rightly point out you need to get the numbers to prove your worth.
If, however, you have a recreational stalking "permission" then you're not paid to manage the deer and you can shoot as many or as few as you like.
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Here lies the problem, too many recreational stalkers not shooting enough deer!

Hence the mess we are in!

The agreement i have with my land owners suits me and my friends just grand ta very much.
 
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Norfolk Deer Search said:
Here lies the problem, too many recreational stalkers not shooting enough deer!

Hence the mess we are in!

The agreement i have with my land owners suits me and my friends just grand ta very much.
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You're missing the point. The fact is, the recreational deer stalkers don't have to shoot enough deer. They can shoot as many or as few as they like. It's not a problem. It's their hobby. Just like I don't have to play golf. (Actually, that's not a very good analogy, as I wouldn't play golf even if I was paid to). The only people who have to shoot deer are those who are are paid to do so as part of their job, or who's income depends on venison sales.

Recreational stalkers aren't the problem, but they might be part of the solution if they can be incentivised to shoot more deer.
 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
I have Noticed that everybody avoids the muntjac kid comment!? Obviously nobody shoots female muntjac anymore🙈😂😂
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Orphaning dependants can be prevented with the larger deer species with an off season system. Each female within a species breed at roughly the same time and their young become non dependent at the same time meaning that a simple off season can prevent orphans. This is not so with muntjac females who can breed at any time of the year, there is no way of implementing an off season in order to prevent orphaning. If they had a set breeding season then they would have an open/close season as do the other species. This is so basic that I struggle to see your point, it has nothing at all to do with not caring about muntjac and everything to do with them having dependants at any time of the year.
 
I am fully aware of the reasons for seasons and muntjac etc you not grasping my point!

Whats the difference between orphaning a muntjac compared to a fallow or red calf?

Nothing apart from its size!
 
Klenchblaize said:
There are challenges ahead and even in NDS territory:

“Snowflake The Tiny Muntjac Deer”​

View attachment 270588
www.eadt.co.uk

Gallery: Snowflake the tiny muntjac deer is being nursed back to health after being abandoned in the snow

HE faced an uncertain start in life but now Snowflake the tiny muntjac deer is in the safe hands of staff at an animal rescue centre.
www.eadt.co.uk www.eadt.co.uk

K
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And no doubt they will illegally slip it back into the woods when no one is looking!
 
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