BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

[VSS]

So back to shoot on sight policy for me then

Not that o expected that to change!

Why continue with a policy that isn't working, and by your own admission hasn't worked for the past 15 years? You're wasting your time.

The only policy that's going to work for you is engagement with the neighbours. If that's also failed for the past 15 years then perhaps it requires someone with a touch more tact and diplomacy on the job?
Or legislation.

 

[VSS]

Here again lies the problem, those of us with problems need solutions, not a blanket country wide watered down public friendly consultation!

What has to be done is wholesale mass cull of the fallow and red deer!

Not nibbling around the edges, The government will not do anything that will involve ball ache, they will scoop around is the quickest and cost-effective way as possible in other words fuk all will be done about it!

No, that's what has to be done in your area. Not everywhere. And responses to the consultation need to consider not only what needs to be done in hot-spot areas like yours, but also what needs to be done (if anything) elsewhere. The aim is to produce a management strategy, which no doubt will take account of regional variables.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Why continue with a policy that isn't working, and by your own admission hasn't worked for the past 15 years? You're wasting your time.

The only policy that's going to work for you is engagement with the neighbours. If that's also failed for the past 15 years then perhaps it requires someone with a touch more tact and diplomacy on the job?
Or legislation.

i can imagine my land owners face when i tell him “nope not shooting the deer until the neighbours tow the same line”

You obviously have little or no idea of the situation other than is detailed on here!

What you need is to be in my shoes with a land owner like mine and see how far you get with that kind of policy

You will be looking for more stalking rather rapidly o will assure you

 

[VSS]

i can imagine my land owners face when i tell him “nope not shooting the deer until the neighbours tow the same line”

You obviously have little or no idea of the situation other than is detailed on here!

What you need is to be in my shoes with a land owner like mine and see how far you get with that kind of policy

You will be looking for more stalking rather rapidly o will assure you

Well your landowner must be a few coupons short of a toaster if, after 15 years of you failing to sort out his deer, he can't see that a change of policy is required. Or a new stalker. Or both.

 

[User00053]

Here again lies the problem, those of us with problems need solutions, not a blanket country wide watered down public friendly consultation!

What has to be done is wholesale mass cull of the fallow and red deer!

Not nibbling around the edges, The government will not do anything that will involve ball ache, they will scoop around is the quickest and cost-effective way as possible in other words fuk all will be done about it!

From the outside looking in and having experienced and suffered similar problems sounds like your blessed with having a group of like minded people in one area, who understand and have grasped the issues just needing a little helpful legislation and maybe more access.
When all taking over it’s action needed can be dressed up or spun any which way, but needs doing and fannying around don’t help.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Well your landowner must be a few coupons short of a toaster if, after 15 years of you failing to sort out his deer, he can't see that a change of policy is required. Or a new stalker. Or both.

Why do you think i have it?

Because no one else has managed to sort it!

You must life in a perfect dream land where everyone gets on and every one thinks the same!

The only way there deer problem will be sorted there is if he fences it, the whole boundary which i did recommend 10 years ago, which hasn’t happened yet and i doubt ever will!

so its keep on thrashing them, which he is happy with!

So as long as i keep on killing the deer and as many as i can, at least i am doing my bit!

What happens over the boundary i have given up worrying about!

 

[JTO]

If you take the train between Wool and Wareham in the daytime, look out of the north-side window. You will see 300-400 Sika on land where no-one is allowed to shoot them, by all accounts. At night, they spread out onto neighbouring properties.

 

[David Barker]

Please explain as I am at a loss. Surely getting numbers is helping or am I missing something.

Shooting numbers is better than shooting nothing seeing as the aim is to reduce the population.

Not at all if you are night shooting you are not being selective. So you will be shooting just as many males as you do females. This will have an effect in the short term but not in the medium to long term. The effort needed to drag a buck or stag in and the time to dress it out and larder it will have no effect on the population so is a waist of time. The time should be spent on the females were the next generation will spawn from. This can only be done properly in day light. This is evident with FLS who have been night shooting now for 15+ years with little to no effect on the populations in there forests.

 

[User00053]

Why do you think i have it?

Because no one else has managed to sort it!

You must life in a perfect dream land where everyone gets on and every one thinks the same!

The only way there deer problem will be sorted there is if he fences it, the whole boundary which i did recommend 10 years ago, which hasn’t happened yet and i doubt ever will!

so its keep on thrashing them, which he is happy with!

So as long as i keep on killing the deer and as many as i can, at least i am doing my bit!

What happens over the boundary i have given up worrying about!

Must be some serious pussys in your neck of the woods, but makes real men appreciated.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Must be some serious pussys in your neck of the woods, but makes real men appreciated.

No one takes it seriously, no one will get together and make a solid plan, this is the problem!

Tried to get a deer management group together, no one want to know so every year is the same!

Get fell in!

 

[User00053]

No one takes it seriously, no one will get together and make a solid plan, this is the problem!

Tried to get a deer management group together, no one want to know so every year is the same!

Get fell in!

No point in banging head on wall, treat it for what it is, and them for what they are as long as you enjoy doing it great, if not tell them to stick it but then you would probably miss it, vicious circle. Pain is a sensation, a sensation is to be enjoyed.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I can see in my own position night shooting will help immensely.
The neighbouring farm, the stalkers lives 2 hours away, he stalks it maybe 4 times a year, a 250 acre farm, the landowner won't let anyone else on there as they grew up together.
I can see them lying in the sun some days, over 50 reds, I message him to get down, it falls on deaf ears most of the time.
My farmer is pulling his hair out, he knows I put in the effort, costs me £10 in fuel every time I go there, with many fruitless visits, at the moment it is 3 fields of maize, I can't even see the deer let alone extract one (although I did pack one out on my back recently) and the 50 reds, you guessed it, they walk across at night and have a nice feed and trample the maize, when it's cut I will have a brief window before its ploughed and the deer wise up, so as far as I'm concerned bring on night shooting, and I hope the farmer plants wheat instead of maize next year!

 

[sikamalc]

Why do you think i have it?

Because no one else has managed to sort it!

You must life in a perfect dream land where everyone gets on and every one thinks the same!

The only way there deer problem will be sorted there is if he fences it, the whole boundary which i did recommend 10 years ago, which hasn’t happened yet and i doubt ever will!

so its keep on thrashing them, which he is happy with!

So as long as i keep on killing the deer and as many as i can, at least i am doing my bit!

What happens over the boundary i have given up worrying about!

I can see Lee's point of view here, as we have had a similar situation.
The owner expected us to be on there 24/7. We shot triple what the previous stalkers undertook, and with Fallow that's not bad going. We also lost a huge chunk of time due to Covid, 6 months of prime wintertime.
Frankly the surrounding areas were shot by one person and the deer were often on there and not on ours. You can only do so much, and with extra areas in West Sussex we are finding the same.

The estate I manage in W Sussex purchased further fields about 8 months back, part of a run down small farm.
One person is on the surrounding area, who hardly ever goes out, but wants to keep all the stalking. The Fallow in this area are unbelievable in numbers. The local chap had some high seats up, or down should I say on the areas purchased. Most were laying on the floor where they fell and rotted. And yet he still wanted to come on the ground, which he has now lost. But he still stalks the surrounding areas, or at least keeps it to keep his FAC no doubt. The area is that populated you can see mud marks across the lane where the deer travel from one side of the lane to the other.

This is common place, and with all the ground we have its a full time job just keeping level with the numbers. Most stalkers are recreational, they maybe go out once a week, or even less. That's not going to keep the numbers in check, especially species such as Fallow, which are now a real issue. Especially as they go nocturnal just about everywhere one goes these days.

I have no doubt Lee does his very best to keep the Red Deer numbers in check, but its not going to be easy, no matter how hard one tries when next door is not even getting out to sort numbers of deer. Here in lies the problem with anything the government recommend.

 

[User00053]

Not at all if you are night shooting you are not being selective. So you will be shooting just as many males as you do females. This will have an effect in the short term but not in the medium to long term. The effort needed to drag a buck or stag in and the time to dress it out and larder it will have no effect on the population so is a waist of time. The time should be spent on the females were the next generation will spawn from. This can only be done properly in day light. This is evident with FLS who have been night shooting now for 15+ years with little to no effect on the populations in there forests.

Night shooting at times needed though as short term solution, but a pain in the botty if you have other jobs to do and cannot catch up on sleep, ok if you can when marauding stags causing havoc.
Must be a real mare down south with them wandering around at will.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

If the shackles on night shooting was lifted i am 100% confident i could kill over 100 head this winter and 90% of those i can confidently say would be hinds, that stags are not here in numbers that they used to be!

 

[User00038]

If you take the train between Wool and Wareham in the daytime, look out of the north-side window. You will see 300-400 Sika on land where no-one is allowed to shoot them, by all accounts. At night, they spread out onto neighbouring properties.

A scenario in which simpler night licensing would definitely help.

 

[User00038]

If the shackles on night shooting was lifted i am 100% confident i could kill over 100 head this winter and 90% of those i can confidently say would be hinds, that stags are not here in numbers that they used to be!

What has been the position so far in applying for a night licence on this land?

 

[sikamalc]

I am not sure night shooting is the ultimate answer to the issue. Any deer once shot at night several times will soon learn to move off. The problem is a complex one, and first of all getting over the fact that there is still large areas of land that are NOT stalked, or are stalked by people who do not get out enough but just want to keep their FAC open is going to be a problem to over come. As I say the FC have a lot to answer for, especially down in south England. Its ridiculous to the extreme in my opinion.
Night licences are being given out more, even down this way in southern England. But shooting deer at night is not as straight forward as many seem to think.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I can see where we have conflict, you have those who love deer, love stalking bumbling around the woods at a crafty buck or doe.

I used to be like that about 16/17 years ago!

Then it consumes you and once it consumes you, you either let it and you get to where i am, semi professional juggling a day job and killing deer or you stay the recreational stalker just plodding about!

My advice is save your sanity and stay the plodder!

Not good for the deer but better for you!

Once you open that door and build a good reputation, doors open themselves and it becomes your life and in the end your love for stalking and deer vanishes and it becomes a job and the deer become figures and targets nothing more!

Thats the end of todays lesson

 

[sikamalc]

I can see where we have conflict, you have those who love deer, love stalking bumbling around the woods at a crafty buck or doe.

I used to be like that about 16/17 years ago!

Then it consumes you and once it consumes you, you either let it and you get to where i am, semi professional juggling a day job and killing deer or you stay the recreational stalker just plodding about!

My advice is save your sanity and stay the plodder!

Not good for the deer but better for you!

Once you open that door and build a good reputation, doors open themselves and it becomes your life and in the end your love for stalking and deer vanishes and it becomes a job and the deer become figures and targets nothing more!

Thats the end of todays lesson

Fortunate that I still have it as a job , but still love the stalking and challenge. Its a bit different for contract killers for the FC etc, living in a caravan on a Scottish hill side in the middle of no where and little to dry your clothes with and a cull to obtain otherwise you dont get paid.

Deer have never just been a target for me, but numbers need to be kept in check. I am fortunate that this is left up to me.