308 or 6.5cm
- Thread starter David78b
- Start date
270 is an exceptionally good deer rifle , it will match or better the cm in all but powder use. Its also very good with copper , just select bullet on length not weight. 308 win will be inferior to both as regards ballistics but to most that wont matter , if it was for shooting wild boar i would be keener on 270 and 308 than 6.5 creedmore . Same length bullet same twist , longer bullets faster twist and copper is longer . What this means is lets say your on a 160 grain 308 in lead you might drop to say 130 or so in copper ? it seems creedmore tend to be 1-8 twist ideal for most copper but bullets are being tailored to match existing common twist rates in popular calibres , hence 243 100 grains are less than common as 100 was difficult to stabilize in the first place in many in lead
IMHO the 308 will do everything the creedmore will do and maybe even better at most ranges we hunt at, I honestly don't see much advantage with the CM up to 300 yds there's virtually nothing in it trajectory wise, and still not that much more even to 500yds.
This is just my thoughts I try personally to get close enough to my target I could throw a stone at it, while I appreciate this isn't always possible, my abosolute max range for me anyway is 300 yds and only if absolutely necessary, the 308 will do it in spades.
Like I said at my opening these are just my thoughts and any deer legal cartridge will be more than good enough, in the end it's what you feel most confident with and makes you happy.
Best of luck whichever you decide, and safe hunting.
D
This is just my thoughts I try personally to get close enough to my target I could throw a stone at it, while I appreciate this isn't always possible, my abosolute max range for me anyway is 300 yds and only if absolutely necessary, the 308 will do it in spades.
Like I said at my opening these are just my thoughts and any deer legal cartridge will be more than good enough, in the end it's what you feel most confident with and makes you happy.
Best of luck whichever you decide, and safe hunting.
D
Utectok
Well-Known Member
It’s not about drop that’s fixed high bc bullets are all about wind. Like you say sub 250m it doesn’t matter… any deer legal rifle will do…. I’m actually a fan of the bullet choice being at least as important as calibre?
Did I understand your original post correctly - you've decided you're getting a .270 already and are now deciding on whether to go .308 or 6.5CM as a second rifle?
Personally, I don't see any point in 270 AND either 308 or 6.5CM unless they have very different uses. All 3 calibres will do everything you need so unless one rifle was a heavy lump and the other a lightweight hill rifle then I don't see the need.
But I also have a feeling I've misunderstood your OP (although judging from other responses, I'm not alone!)
Personally, I don't see any point in 270 AND either 308 or 6.5CM unless they have very different uses. All 3 calibres will do everything you need so unless one rifle was a heavy lump and the other a lightweight hill rifle then I don't see the need.
But I also have a feeling I've misunderstood your OP (although judging from other responses, I'm not alone!)
For range work a 6.5 creed at longer distances will possibly give you more accuracy, I'm talking a 1000 yds or so, and with target type guns, so big fat long barrels, heavy stocks, 32x scopes. Nothing your likely to take hunting.
Creed is more in fashion these days, but 6.5 bullets tend to top out around 140gn weight, where 308 can go to about 190gn. Bigger slower heavy bullets can reduce meat damage .However you can always load a light fast bullet in a 308, but you cant go much bigger in a creed. Other than that, it will probably make little difference.
My own view would be to keep , re-barrel, upgrade the 270. In practice the bullets are very similar in weight to creed ( there is very little difference in just over a tenth of an inch in bore 260 v270 ) the 270 tends to be faster, but you could probably hand load up to 270 velocity in a creed if you really wanted to. I always think that I've personally never seen a runner with a 270, so I will stick with one .
On the other hand if you have suddenly found a few extra quid in your shooting budget and you want a new toy,,,,,,go and get either, or ideally keep 270 and get a 308. We all like new toys, and I for one cant go into a fishing shop without buying flies and shiny things in the vain hope it might give me the edge, the fact it never does, doesn't really matter, its a part of my hobby.
Good luck
Creed is more in fashion these days, but 6.5 bullets tend to top out around 140gn weight, where 308 can go to about 190gn. Bigger slower heavy bullets can reduce meat damage .However you can always load a light fast bullet in a 308, but you cant go much bigger in a creed. Other than that, it will probably make little difference.
My own view would be to keep , re-barrel, upgrade the 270. In practice the bullets are very similar in weight to creed ( there is very little difference in just over a tenth of an inch in bore 260 v270 ) the 270 tends to be faster, but you could probably hand load up to 270 velocity in a creed if you really wanted to. I always think that I've personally never seen a runner with a 270, so I will stick with one .
On the other hand if you have suddenly found a few extra quid in your shooting budget and you want a new toy,,,,,,go and get either, or ideally keep 270 and get a 308. We all like new toys, and I for one cant go into a fishing shop without buying flies and shiny things in the vain hope it might give me the edge, the fact it never does, doesn't really matter, its a part of my hobby.
Good luck
Ah, sorry I thought you meant "a new 270 was on the way" not that your existing one was on it's way to another home.
badmolassesaccident
Well-Known Member
I have both the 308 and 6.5CM. If I had to have only one, the 308 is the winner for me. It's the best all round delivery system for anything that needs a bullet.
The 6.5CM feels a bit like a pea shooter in comparison and the 6.5 ammo is a bit more expensive, although it is still widely available.
The Creedmore shoots more efficient bullets, but what often isn't mentioned is it shoots them slower than a 308. For reference, using equivalent loadings eg a heavy 308 bullet and a heavy 6.5CM bullet, the Creedmore comes out 100 or 150fps slower. Obv you can load either up how you like it, but if you buy factory ammo, the Creedmoor is slower.
I think a 20 inch barrel is enough. My 308 with 20 inch barrel is supremely accurate to about 600 metres and supersonic to 950 metres. The 6.5CM will shoot flatter at 500 ish meters and beyond and will get you an extra 250m or so of supersonic range, but that isn't a consideration for deer stalking.
The 6.5CM feels a bit like a pea shooter in comparison and the 6.5 ammo is a bit more expensive, although it is still widely available.
The Creedmore shoots more efficient bullets, but what often isn't mentioned is it shoots them slower than a 308. For reference, using equivalent loadings eg a heavy 308 bullet and a heavy 6.5CM bullet, the Creedmore comes out 100 or 150fps slower. Obv you can load either up how you like it, but if you buy factory ammo, the Creedmoor is slower.
I think a 20 inch barrel is enough. My 308 with 20 inch barrel is supremely accurate to about 600 metres and supersonic to 950 metres. The 6.5CM will shoot flatter at 500 ish meters and beyond and will get you an extra 250m or so of supersonic range, but that isn't a consideration for deer stalking.
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Comparing apples with apples, the same rifle in either calibre, and shooting comparable bullets say for target at 600yds, 308 running a 155 or 165 bullet, the 6.5 a 136 or 147, the 6.5 will be nicer (less thumpy).
I can't see you going wrong with 20" in either for stalking.
I can't see you going wrong with 20" in either for stalking.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
even if a 6.5 starts slower it will soon beat a .308 as it has better BC. Although honestly the game changer for me was Yew tree TLR 6.5 bullets which are simply devastating on game to 450m in my experience... Now available in 30cal so.........
I'm interested in the responses here. In my situation I have space on my ticket for one 65CM and one .308. I cant decide which one to use for deer stalking and which to use for target work - to which i am new anyway so wont be going straight out to 1000yrds.
The 65CM seems to be the better ballistics so leans towards target work, but unsure whether the .308 would be too much for the smaller deer and have too much unnecessary kick!
The 65CM seems to be the better ballistics so leans towards target work, but unsure whether the .308 would be too much for the smaller deer and have too much unnecessary kick!
All to their own but I would be a very old man before I let my 270 go ( For clarity I am pretty old now!!)
badmolassesaccident
Well-Known Member
The 6.5 Creedmoor is better for target, provided you find the right ammunition. If you use cheap target ammo, it is the same as a 308 with cheap ammo.
With the right ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor is superior for target because it has a higher ballistic coefficient (depending on ammunition), so you need less elevation and less windage, for a given distance and wind speed. It also stays supersonic for longer. The 308 will be subsonic by about 950m. The 6.5CM remains supersonic to about 1200m.
Where the 308 is superior is terminal ballistics at moderate range. At moderate range, it is a heavier bullet travelling faster (the Creedmoor loses less speed than the 308, but it also comes out the end of the barrel a bit slower, so at moderate ranges the 308 remains faster). This means you can shoot bigger animals and it means for target work, if you are doing steel plates, it is easier to see the impact and easier to see the splash if you miss.
I would use the 308 for hunting/stalking. You can mitigate its higher power than strictly necessary for small animals by choosing the right ammunition. So for example you could use jacketed soft point at short range and ballistic tipped at longer range - some ballistic tipped bullets can over expand at short range/high speed, leaving grapefruit size holes.
For target with the 6.5CM, again you need the right ammo. The cheapest target 6.5CM ammo available in the UK is the Sellier and Bellot 140gr tactical at about £1 a go. But this is no better for ballistics than your typical 308 match ammo. You really need to use something like Hornady 140 or 147 ELDM, which is about 50% more expensive. Mid range in price is the S&B 142gr match or American Gunner 140gr. This advice applies to long range. If you are shooting stuff at 200 metres, it doesn't matter so much. One disadvantage of the 6.5 for target is the barrel life is shorter than a 308. You can end up sending a lot of lead downrange when target shooting.
I'd select the rifle based on shooting 1000 metres+, even if you think you won't be doing that right now. You can progress in distance quite fast once you start to work at it.
Precision123
Well-Known Member
I have both. It's the rifle type that dictates which one is best for the job. If they were identical rifles I would struggle to pick between them. It would be bullet choice, which both have lots of choice. So really the deer won't know which one it was.
So pick a rifle you like. 308 will be cheaper to shoot if that's a factor.
So pick a rifle you like. 308 will be cheaper to shoot if that's a factor.
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