Any one vat registered for their stalking business?

[kingstonandy]

That's very sneaky.....................

Going down this route it works!

Not sneaky, almost every farmer and food business is doing the same.

 

[Bowland blades]

If you are organised with your paperwork and understand spreadsheets etc then it is likely that your input tax will always result in a claim, certainly in the beginning as you start the business off. If you get to the point where you are paying tax and VAT then you are making a profit, which is never a bad thing. The more people that do that (in Scotland) the better.
It will likely (unless your business grows substatially) not be worth it though.

when you put 20% on your selling price , you will sell less try it and see. 20% net, net profit will be better than the buisness is likely to make if you actually get to pay yourself minimum wage each month . Large purchases cannot be claimed in one hit because if that was the case everyone would start up registered and then de- register.

 

[Woodenbeam]

Large purchases cannot be claimed in one hit

Actually I think you’ll find a lot can have the full 100% allowance at point of purchase. Then if you’re a limited company need to look at super deductions - 125% allowance. Used to promote investment.
Losses can then be carried forward or written off against other income depending on how you’re set up.
Don’t take any of this as fact so a little research will be needed.

 

[Bowland blades]

Actually I think you’ll find a lot can have the full 100% allowance at point of purchase. Then if you’re a limited company need to look at super deductions - 125% allowance. Used to promote investment.
Losses can then be carried forward or written off against other income depending on how you’re set up.
Don’t take any of this as fact so a little research will be needed.

trust me if it worked i would still be registered . Unless all your clients are registered or your goods are zero rated , forget it !

 

[VSS]

trust me if it worked i would still be registered . Unless all your clients are registered or your goods are zero rated , forget it !

But in this particular instance we are discussing zero rated goods.
If we were not, then we wouldn't be having this conversation as there'd be no point in voluntarily registering. But where the business's outputs are primarily zero rated goods there's a net gain generated through being VAT registered.

when you put 20% on your selling price , you will sell less try it and see. 20% net, net profit will be better than the buisness is likely to make if you actually get to pay yourself minimum wage each month .

My wife also does consultancy work through our business, and charges VAT on her fees. Her clients are not VAT registered, so cannot reclaim it, but this hasn't affected the level of demand for her services.

Large purchases cannot be claimed in one hit

For VAT purposes, yes they can.
I think you're confusing Value Added Tax with Income Tax.

 

[Morkai]

I was reliably informed 12 months ago HMRC will be looking at game dealers, and in these times I can see it happening.

HMRC can barely get it right just dealing with PAYE so I wouldnt put too much faith in them branching out into game dealers.

 

[Morkai]

Plus all the money that got scammed away during covid when they dished grants out left, right and centre to small businesses that didnt exist. They'll be trying to get all that back first.

 

[NullMac]

Is it though? Genuine question... Looks like I can do everything online and it'll take about an hour (companies house, business bank account, voluntarily register for VAT). Got to be worth it for a grand?

Then going forward I can recover VAT on fuel for stalking and any other costs. My annual accounts will be very simple - odd ammunition purchase, mileage, occasional purchase like quad and a handful of carcasses. Simple spreadsheet to track.

Maybe I'm missing something but I already do an annual PAYE tax return and that's simple enough.

Pain in the ass. If you have got a friendly bookkeeper around fine. If you are going to do it yourself, well don't. Pay the grand, spare yourself the angst

 

[Sharpie]

But in this particular instance we are discussing zero rated goods.
If we were not, then we wouldn't be having this conversation as there'd be no point in voluntarily registering. But where the business's outputs are primarily zero rated goods there's a net gain generated through being VAT registered.


My wife also does consultancy work through our business, and charges VAT on her fees. Her clients are not VAT registered, so cannot reclaim it, but this hasn't affected the level of demand for her services.

For VAT purposes, yes they can.
I think you're confusing Value Added Tax with Income Tax.

Ye, quite some confusion here. I cannot speak about the specifics of a stalking and farm-shop business, but as a self employed consultant. operating as a sole trader. I have always found HMRC to be very supportive, clued up, and keen to keep things simple for my returns (tax and VAT).

Just don't try to call them at the last minute, just before a deadline.

E.g. I have just bought some capital equipment (computer, printer, other bits, a chair and desk), do I need to put it into my capital equipment pool and depreciate it year by year ? How much are we talking about ? OK, just write it off year 1. What about my vehicle ? No, that still needs to be done properly.

Are you still OK that I claim expenses for my house (declared as my premises, one room out of the three bedrooms as my office) ? Yes, no change. That's good, the council and my insurers still also see it as a private residential property.

BTW these are the arbitrary rules, living space is excluded (kitchen, bathroom, living room etc.) But if you have three more rooms, usually bedrooms, you can claim that one of these is dedicated for business. Which is completely legit, for me. So offset 1/3 of pretty much all household bills against that.

I am planning to slow down, so expenditure will exceed income, I would like to reclaim tax backwards, for the next few years. Yes, you can do this for (ISTR) six more years, against four years of your previous tax. So we will (sort of) be paying you. Good, and they did.

I run this from one personal bank account, again a conversation with them. I am using this for personal business, as you know, is that OK going forward or do you need to move me to a business account with all the extra charges. No Sir, you are doing nothing improper, your overdraft limit, rates, debit and credit cards will remain exactly as for your other account with us.

My affairs are very simple, intentionally so. Others may need accountants, even ones set up for compatible electronic communication. One of my other businesses does require that. But that is another story.

 

[VSS]

Ye, quite some confusion here. I cannot speak about the specifics of a stalking and farm-shop business, but as a self employed consultant. operating as a sole trader. I have always found HMRC to be very supportive, clued up, and keen to keep things simple for my returns (tax and VAT).

Just don't try to call them at the last minute, just before a deadline.

E.g. I have just bought some capital equipment (computer, printer, other bits, a chair and desk), do I need to put it into my capital equipment pool and depreciate it year by year ? How much are we talking about ? OK, just write it off year 1. What about my vehicle ? No, that still needs to be done properly.

Are you still OK that I claim expenses for my house (declared as my premises, one room out of the three bedrooms as my office) ? Yes, no change. That's good, the council and my insurers still also see it as a private residential property.

BTW these are the arbitrary rules, living space is excluded (kitchen, bathroom, living room etc.) But if you have three more rooms, usually bedrooms, you can claim that one of these is dedicated for business. Which is completely legit, for me. So offset 1/3 of pretty much all household bills against that.

I am planning to slow down, so expenditure will exceed income, I would like to reclaim tax backwards, for the next few years. Yes, you can do this for (ISTR) six more years, against four years of your previous tax. So we will (sort of) be paying you. Good, and they did.

I run this from one personal bank account, again a conversation with them. I am using this for personal business, as you know, is that OK going forward or do you need to move me to a business account with all the extra charges. No Sir, you are doing nothing improper, your overdraft limit, rates, debit and credit cards will remain exactly as for your other account with us.

My affairs are very simple, intentionally so. Others may need accountants, even ones set up for compatible electronic communication. One of my other businesses does require that. But that is another story.

Another illustrative example for you:

I paid £36,000 for a shed, an item of capital expenditure.
I reclaimed all of the VAT immediately, but for Income Tax purposes the net cost of the building was amortised over 10 years at 10% of initial cost per year.

(Incidentally, business vehicles and machinery can be dealt with similarly, in which case it's 25% of residual value per year, not a percentage of initial cost).

 

[User00040]

 

[75]

Further discussions with my accountant and it seems the key point is zero rated versus vat exempt and he's confirmed that no issue setting up a Ltd company and voluntarily registering for VAT in my circumstances.

Thanks folks, interesting discussion

 

[wytonpjs]

Further discussions with my accountant and it seems the key point is zero rated versus vat exempt and he's confirmed that no issue setting up a Ltd company and voluntarily registering for VAT in my circumstances.

Thanks folks, interesting discussion

Yup - reached the same conclusion thanks to @VSS My FB is now a limited company and I intend to register for VAT today. Very useful thread - please share any developments as many are I suspect following

 

[VSS]

Yup - reached the same conclusion thanks to @VSS My FB is now a limited company and I intend to register for VAT today. Very useful thread - please share any developments as many are I suspect following

One further point: It doesn't have to be a limited company. There are other options that may suit your circumstances better, and involve less paperwork.
(I am not registered as a limited company btw, and do not have to submit an annual return to Companies House, or have my accounts audited. All I have to do is an annual Tax Return and a quarterly VAT return. Keep it simple )

 

[75]

One further point: It doesn't have to be a limited company.

That's me now set up as a Sole Trader and VAT registered. Just waiting for the bank account stuff to come through so I have a separate account to keep everything clear but seemed like the simplest method.

 

[VSS]

That's me now set up as a Sole Trader and VAT registered. Just waiting for the bank account stuff to come through so I have a separate account to keep everything clear but seemed like the simplest method.

I managed for years with a jam jar labelled "business account", but when I registered for VAT I thought it prudent to up my game a bit, so I opened a proper bank account. Definitely keep everything separate from personal banking.

 

[75]

Another question if I may for those with a businesses registered for this purpose - is there a list of what is a legitimate business expenditure anywhere; specifically the stalking side of things?

So far I've got:
- Quad and fuel (used solely for the business)
- Ammunition
- Packaging
- Electricity to run chiller
- Mileage to/from stalking

What about stalking fees and lease fees? Some of my ground is free but could I put a stalking outing and carcass fee through my company too? I can't find any reason why not but thought it worth a check.

I'm trying to keep everything nice and tidy from an accounting perspective and use a separate bank account for everything related to the business so I just want to try and get my head around stuff in advance. Whilst my accountant is pretty good, he's not clued up on stalking itself.

 

[VSS]

If you've got a separate vehicle that you use solely in connection with your business then that side of things is easy - you just put all the costs through. However, if it's a vehicle that's also used for domestic purposes then you're getting into the realms of percentage use, which gets a bit more complicated. There are some restrictions on what you can / can't claim, and what percentage is allowable.
Electricity is similar, ie, if you're using your domestic supply, but it's easy enough to get a plug-in usage monitor for a few quid, and then just do the sums.
Ground lease - yes, put it through. Some leases may have VAT, and others not. Either way, the leases are a business cost.

One more tip: when you're doing the vat registration application, opt for "cash accounting" if you can. It will make your book-keeping much, much simpler. It means you account for the vat on the day that the transaction actually takes place, not on the date that the invoice is issued, and saves a huge amount of accountancy hassle.

 

[JTO]

Personally from your situation described not worth the hassle, a second hand quad could only have a 1-1.5k max VAT? A lot of paperwork etc for that

And VAT will have to be charged when it is sold.

 

[JTO]

People who claim part of their home to be business premises, with deductions, for income tax purposes, should remember that capital gains tax will be payable on that proportion of the house sale when they move home.