Is the 6.5 Creedmoor capable of everything a 7mm Rem Mag is? All game in the UK, including boar.

[sauer]

There’s one particular guy I know who some on here will recognise from the NZ forum. He’s 74 and a very prolific deer hunter. Out on the hill pretty much every week, usually alone, shooting and recovering red and fallow deer for meat, much of which is donated to those in need. His deeds are quite bloody brilliant really.

What is interesting is that from one week to the next, he will use rifles ranging from the .223 Rem to the .300 PRC, and several in between. He goes to great lengths to post the outcome on our forum with pictures of entry and exit wounds, vitals damage, etc, always with a clear description of range, angle and projectile. He often posts pictures of recovered bullets. Hence we get a really good insight into the terminal performance of different types of projectiles in different calibres and MV / energy. Some of you fellas would be well served to follow this content.

I can say that there would appear to be absolutely bugger all difference in his success rate no matter wheth

id love to know forum and gents forum name etc? ...that would be worth while content to read....but also at 74 how hes got his set up for carcass removal etc ....im guessing field dress / pack animal out in primals / sections ?

cheers
Paul

 

[njc110381]

That’s all true…. Except no normal deer calibre will “knock over” larger deer. The deer fall over due to blood loss or damaged nervous system but they are not knocked over unless you are firing bricks.

You'll struggle to knock over a small deer with a big calibre too, it was a figure of speech. But a bigger and faster bullet will cause more trauma and more blood loss, assuming a like for like construction.

Very well said. If I'm out to shoot primarily Roe and Muntjac I take the 6XC, if the target is Fallow or hinds I take the 6.5 Lapua and for Red and Sika Stags I take the 280ai. All precision cartridges that shoot very small groups if I do my bit. But the most fun I have with a rifle is taking the 338WM out for running Boar practice or on the Boar themselves. You can't beat shooting freehand with a big calibre for the grin factor. I will take the 338 on the Stags one day - just need to find a stalker who will tolerate it

Take the .338WM out on muntjac. I shot a few with mine when I had it. I tended to use either 225gr Federal Fusion factory ammo or home loaded 225gr Hornady soft points. Neither did a huge amount of damage if I'm honest - I've never achieved such a clean carcass with a .243 using any bullet, because I don't think the big .338 lumps really had enough to work with to expand properly.

 

[njc110381]

In the world of deer hunting it is quite normal to get two distinct populations of shooter. Those that use a standard short action cartridge, and those that use a “magnum” cartridge, normally long action but sometimes a short action WSM.

Where does a fella sit if he has both, and enjoys taking deer with anything from a marginal cartridge to something that is capable of humanely taking something ten times the weight of what he's hunting on the day?

I have a very clear addiction - magnumitis. But I also enjoy getting the job done with cartridges that are hard pressed to even be legal.

 

[User00033]

Where does a fella sit if he has both…

On the naughty step, alongside me when I come home with another rifle I don’t need and the wife finds out.

It is amazing how many rifles I’ve bought for her, as presents. Look what I got you, wife! Cue rolling of eyes and a frosty glare. Mind you she is a lethal shot with everything I’ve ever “given” her.

I shoot deer with everything from a .223 Rem to a .300 WSM, and a bunch of rifles in between in 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and regular flavour .308. I’ve had a bit of a clear out in the last year and got rid of a .270, a 6.5 Creedmoor and a .243 Winchester, and fairly shortly I will also be giving back the two 7mm rifles I’ve been babysitting while a mate works overseas. Give or take they all do the same thing, assuming you use them in the same way.

Sometimes on a long day with variable conditions from woodland to long-range, between two of us we might have half a dozen rifles with us, chambered between .223 and .300. Normally the rifles are used for different tasks, that’s the idea. But things never really work out like that.

For example, you can shoot a deer at 500m with a .300 WSM, and at the sound of the shot the mob hidden in the gully directly below you scatter, and then stop to look back on the opposite spur, in the open. That might be an only 150m away, so you shoot as many of them as you can with the rifle in your hand. It’s not like you say oh hang on a minute, I’ll just go and get the .243. What I’m saying is that with like-for-like placement, the .300 knocks them over in exactly the same way as the .243, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, whatever the guy next to you is using. You only start seeing the additional power of the magnum in the animal’s reaction at much much longer range than 300m. And that’s usually because at range, the higher velocity, heavier bullet, and higher ballistic coefficient, make it easier to put that bullet into the bang flop spot than it would with a lighter slower bullet that will struggle with the wind.

The OP asked his question into different ways, which can be interpreted quite differently. He used the words “capable” in the title and “comparable” in the text, and he specifically referenced a maximum range of 300m and only with respect to British game.

I know from a shed load of experience on exactly the same game that if I point a 6.5 Creedmoor at the shoulder of a red deer within 300m, it is going to fall over in precisely the same manner that it will if I shoot it in the same spot with a 7mm Remington Magnum. That is unequivocal. The idea that the additional power of the 7mm Rem Mag will magically knock the deer over more emphatically is a myth. I imagine some kind of cheesy Hollywood scene where the deer is hit by the Magnum and thrown 20m backwards. What was that film where the Ranger was using hand loaded .45-70 Govt and the bad guys were flying backwards left right and centre? Well it doesn’t happen with deer, does it. Shoot the animal in a bang-flop spot like the high shoulder, the hilar or the base of the neck, it will go down instantly. There’s a bottomless pit of videos on YouTube of guys shooting large, heavy feral hogs with .223 Rem in AR-15s, be it at night with thermal or from helicopters. Watch those videos and then watch the guys doing the same thing with AR-10s. With a competent shooter you will be extremely hard pressed to tell the difference.

Recently, one of our SD members kindly sent me an excellent video of an acquaintance shooting a proper large lowland red stag with a .243 Winchester. I can’t remember off the top of my head what the range was but it was something like 300m. He followed what I regard as best practice point of aim, the animal dropped like it had been struck by Mjölnir. I could’ve shot that exact same animal in the exact same way with my .300 WSM, the reaction would’ve been exactly the same. I’ll bet that if you didn’t know what cartridge had been used, some of you would have assumed it must have been a Magnum.

So you can make your own mind up between the two different interpretations. Similarly capable within 300m? Absolutely, without question. Comparable? Absolutely, without question. Within 300m, if you are a competent shooter, shooting medium game, then you should not be seeing any difference at all. You can’t get any more emphatic than in the video I just mentioned, or the videos I posted on here a few years ago of me shooting deer with 6.5 Creedmoor a lot further out than 300m.

This question is at the very root of “how much is too much?” when it comes to cartridge power for use on light framed, thin-skinned medium game. My view will never change, that being that a lot of European deerstalkers are over-gunned for what they are chasing, and that too much power often negatively affects accuracy. It’s a myth that a much more powerful cartridge automatically translates to more “emphatic” killing at relatively short range. Unfortunately quite a lot of us have the direct experience of watching those with powerful rifles adopt the questionable tradition of shooting behind the shoulder, and consequently demonstrate how easy it is for traditional stalker + over-powered rifle to lose deer, often at surprisingly short range.

This is already longer than I expected but I will just add one last thing. In recent times I’ve come to really enjoy shooting large deer with slower, heavier, wider bullets, e.g. 220gr round nose SPs in .308 Win or 280gr HPs in .44 Rem Mag. Adopt the normal point of aim and the killing is spectacular but without the attendant tissue damage. There’s an awful lot to be said for re-visiting the old timers’ methods, but with modern weapons, binos, rangefinders and so on.

 

[njc110381]

On the naughty step, alongside me when I come home with another rifle I don’t need and the wife finds out...

Oh I know that feeling!

When shot well, I'd agree with everything you've said. Would you agree though that if a shot is slightly pulled or misjudged, the larger bullet with higher velocity does make up for the mistake as long as you're not too far off? That's been my experience, although it sounds like you do considerably more hill stalking than I do.

I don't remember the name of the film but I know the one you mean. Apart from that daft shooting scene I actually quite liked it, especially near the end when the bad guy was made to take a long walk, in minus lord knows what temperature snow, with no boots. At that point you knew his fate - it seemed rather fitting. That shootout scene was sure to spoil it for anyone with hands on firearm experience though. I shot a squirrel with a .375H&H once and it didn't get thrown anywhere. It just kind of vanished! All that was left was red snow and bits of fur, but the mess was right there around where it was standing.

 

[John Gryphon]

No one has mentioned the interference whether it be twigs grass or whatevers `tween barrel and and target. We shoot a lot of deer in cover,sambar like cover,bigger stronger calibres are far better than lighter "almost as good" calibres.
If deer are cross gully , many times any intervening items may never be picked up in the scope...especially when its a big boy and haste is the key.
But then stalking deer in bush/forest is totally different to just sniping things out in clearings hundreds of yards away.

Usyk may be good but he`s no Fury!

 

[Woodlander]

Hi

Oh I know that feeling!

When shot well, I'd agree with everything you've said. Would you agree though that if a shot is slightly pulled or misjudged, the larger bullet with higher velocity does make up for the mistake as long as you're not too far off? That's been my experience, although it sounds like you do considerably more hill stalking than I do.

I don't remember the name of the film but I know the one you mean. Apart from that daft shooting scene I actually quite liked it, especially near the end when the bad guy was made to take a long walk, in minus lord knows what temperature snow, with no boots. At that point you knew his fate - it seemed rather fitting. That shootout scene was sure to spoil it for anyone with hands on firearm experience though. I shot a squirrel with a .375H&H once and it didn't get thrown anywhere. It just kind of vanished! All that was left was red snow and bits of fur, but the mess was right there around where it was standing.

The film mentioned, I believe, is Wind River, always fancied a 45-70 after watching it.

 

[njc110381]

Hi

The film mentioned, I believe, is Wind River, always fancied a 45-70 after watching it.

Going by how it performs in Wind River, you'll be mighty disappointed if you do get one! Not that it isn't a great cartridge, but it's not quite the recoilless wheeled artillery that it's made out to be in the film!

 

[NickJ]

Scenario: all uk Deer Species including boar, no shots taken past 300M. I’m only interested in UK game in this discussion.
TIA

If you are mainly shooting red deer at range on the hill then 7mm RM would be best, mainly other stuff then CM

 

[MarinePMI]

Depends how many boar your planning on shooting.An odd one then you be fine I’ve shot boar with a 243 but it was from sticks on a stalked boar not a running one.I’d rather a 150grain plus bullet on boar as an injured one is not a deer and can be very dangerous

This. I've shot boar with a .223, and it worked fine. This was at 50yds, while it was running right to left. Military ammo and M-4 dropped it in it's tracks with a shot through the neck, which broke it's neck and ripped out the opposite jugular. Not an ideal set up (and I wouldn't recommend .223 as a first option), but at that range, I wasn't going to stand there and get run over either.

But shot placement is critical. No amount of energy or weight will make up for a poorly placed shot. Typically here in the US, people prefer heavier constructed bullets for boar, due to the "armor plating" across the back, covering the top part of the lungs and spine. It's more about the bullet with boar, than a bigger bore or cartridge. 6.5CM would be fine with monometal solids.

 

[Marctitty]

I have always shot with a 308 but fancied a change and went for a 6.5 creedmoor and have zero regrets at all and it hammers uk boar with ease i use sellier and bellot 140gn soft point. Im shoot most my boar around 100- 200 yards with no problem

 

[Adyb]

I have always shot with a 308 but fancied a change and went for a 6.5 creedmoor and have zero regrets at all and it hammers uk boar with ease i use sellier and bellot 140gn soft point. Im shoot most my boar around 100- 200 yards with no problem

You can kill them at 100yards with a 22LR with a lamp and NV scope!