Seeking advice/clarity on stalking on uncleared land as a guest…

[Pines13]

Hoping somebody could clarify this for me please?

So if somebody has a closed FAC which states they can only use their rifle on paid/guided stalks. Are they able to stalk on a stalker/guides permission if it hasn’t been cleared by the police? As the guide holds an open certificate, does he deem the land safe for their guest to shoot their own rifle/calibre regardless if the land has been cleared or not? (I must add, with the guide present of course)

Cheers,

 

[T.eddie]

Hoping somebody could clarify this for me please?

So if somebody has a closed FAC which states they can only use their rifle on paid/guided stalks. Are they able to stalk on a stalker/guides permission if it hasn’t been cleared by the police? As the guide holds an open certificate, does he deem the land safe for their guest to shoot their own rifle/calibre regardless if the land has been cleared or not? (I must add, with the guide present of course)

Cheers,

Hi,

I was in that exact position when starting out, the guidance I had from the FEO was if the land was cleared I could use my rifle on a closed certificate. If it wasn't then I couldn't
Using someone elses rifle was only allowed under the estate rifle clause which would need the person I was with to be the "holder of the rights" and have it in writing they could take people out (if they didnt own the land). Im sure others have had differing experiences as I've been told by others they didnt have to go through those hoops. Best bet is to check with the FEO so no-one falls foul

 

[VSS]

If my understanding is correct, you cannot use your own rifle on land that has not been cleared for that calibre, even if shooting as a guest / client under supervision, because your FAC is closed.
You can use your host's rifle, under the estate rifle clause, but you must adhere to the conditions stipulated on his FAC.

 

[Pines13]

Hi,

I was in that exact position when starting out, the guidance I had from the FEO was if the land was cleared I could use my rifle on a closed certificate. If it wasn't then I couldn't
Using someone elses rifle was only allowed under the estate rifle clause which would need the person I was with to be the "holder of the rights" and have it in writing they could take people out (if they didnt own the land). Im sure others have had differing experiences as I've been told by others they didnt have to go through those hoops. Best bet is to check with the FEO so no-one falls fo

Hi,

I was in that exact position when starting out, the guidance I had from the FEO was if the land was cleared I could use my rifle on a closed certificate. If it wasn't then I couldn't
Using someone elses rifle was only allowed under the estate rifle clause which would need the person I was with to be the "holder of the rights" and have it in writing they could take people out (if they didnt own the land). Im sure others have had differing experiences as I've been told by others they didnt have to go through those hoops. Best bet is to check with the FEO so no-one falls foul

Thank you! Not much available on this topic anywhere. Ye, I’ve contacted my FEO for clarification so just waiting to hear back. I’ve asked to experienced guys I know and they’re both saying the opposite to each other.

 

[Pines13]

If my understanding is correct, you cannot use your own rifle on land that has not been cleared for that calibre, even if shooting as a guest / client under supervision, because your FAC is closed.
You can use your host's rifle, under the estate rifle clause, but you must adhere to the conditions stipulated on his FAC.

Thank you! That’s what I’m thinking however having heard a couple of different opinions I’m eager to see what my FEO says once they come back to me. Cheers

 

[VSS]

Thank you! That’s what I’m thinking however having heard a couple of different opinions I’m eager to see what my FEO says once they come back to me. Cheers

FEOs often get it wrong, unfortunately.

 

[NoIDeer]

Does your FAC state that you can only shoot on land cleared by the chief officer of police for that area or words to that effect? If not you should be good to go as long as the guides FAC conditions allow. I'd wait for clarification now you have asked.

 

[VSS]

Does your FAC state that you can only shoot on land cleared by the chief officer of police for that area or words to that effect? If not you should be good to go as long as the guides FAC conditions allow. I'd wait for clarification now you have asked.

The guide's FAC conditions apply to the guide's rifle, so do not affect what the OP can or can't do with his own rifle.

 

[Pines13]

Does your FAC state that you can only shoot on land cleared by the chief officer of police for that area or words to that effect? If not you should be good to go as long as the guides FAC conditions allow. I'd wait for clarification now you have asked.

I’ve not yet received my FAC, just recently had my FEO visit. This is just something I have been talking about with another stalker. Yes, definitely will be getting clarification from FEO.

 

[Tim.243]

Hoping somebody could clarify this for me please?

So if somebody has a closed FAC which states they can only use their rifle on paid/guided stalks. Are they able to stalk on a stalker/guides permission if it hasn’t been cleared by the police? As the guide holds an open certificate, does he deem the land safe for their guest to shoot their own rifle/calibre regardless if the land has been cleared or not? (I must add, with the guide present of course)

Cheers,

No one else can change the conditions of your cert only the force who issued it...

If they are in the position to lend you an estate rifle that is the best way.

I have had overseas guests and they have had a temporary FAC which is a mirror to mine so my conditions are theirs for the length of time on the cert. I hold the keys they are with me but can shoot under my conditions

Ask @Border

 

[Tim.243]

I’ve not yet received my FAC, just recently had my FEO visit. This is just something I have been talking about with another stalker. Yes, definitely will be getting clarification from FEO.

You should have put that in your question as not having a FAC as you wrote

So if somebody has a closed FAC which gets a different answer.

No FAC then estate rifle is you only option

Best of luck

 

[Pines13]

You should have put that in your question as not having a FAC as you wrote

So if somebody has a closed FAC which gets a different answer.

No FAC then estate rifle is you only option

Best of luck

Hi Tim, thanks for your input. The reason I didn’t note that down is because that’s not what I am trying to figure out.

If I have a closed FAC and I pay to go stalking with a guide and the permission they take me on has not been cleared, am I still allowed to use my own rifle?

Hope this makes sense..

 

[VSS]

If I have a closed FAC and I pay to go stalking with a guide and the permission they take me on has not been cleared, am I still allowed to use my own rifle?

No.

 

[Tim.243]

Hi Tim, thanks for your input. The reason I didn’t note that down is because that’s not what I am trying to figure out.

If I have a closed FAC and I pay to go stalking with a guide and the permission they take me on has not been cleared, am I still allowed to use my own rifle?

Hope this makes sense..

No would be my answer as the condition on your cert will say land cleared by the chief officer etc

An open ticket will have land where you have lawful authority to shoot on or wording to that effect

As I said previously NO one can change you conditions on your FAC except your FAD

The answers are in the Guidance notes which most people never read

Have you read them?

 

[Magnificent 7]

It kind of contradicts the reason of paid stalks to get a FAC.I questioned the fact with our feo when I started as I too had a closed ticket my own rifle was only allowed to be used on my land it was cleared for and no one else’s unless you had written permission from a land owner who’s land was previously cleared for said calibre.Most guides will have open tickets and possibly never had land cleared and would be reluctant to the give you written permission even if they did to
Shoot on there land I’d say.They actually said use the estate rifle until your ticket is opened I suppose allowing you to gain experience along the way and just use yours for your own land.After showing I’d gained the experience plus also sitting my dsc they had no qualms of opening it up.

 

[Morkai]

Hoping somebody could clarify this for me please?

So if somebody has a closed FAC which states they can only use their rifle on paid/guided stalks. Are they able to stalk on a stalker/guides permission if it hasn’t been cleared by the police? As the guide holds an open certificate, does he deem the land safe for their guest to shoot their own rifle/calibre regardless if the land has been cleared or not? (I must add, with the guide present of course)

Cheers,

Do you know for sure the land hasnt been cleared?

 

[Pines13]

Do you know for sure the land hasnt been cleared?

Yes

 

[Pines13]

No would be my answer as the condition on your cert will say land cleared by the chief officer etc

An open ticket will have land where you have lawful authority to shoot on or wording to that effect

As I said previously NO one can change you conditions on your FAC except your FAD

The answers are in the Guidance notes which most people never read

Have you read them?

Will give them a read! Thank you

 

[Tim.243]

Will give them a read! Thank you

Welcome...all the answers are in...Italic lol

 

[Hornet]

No, is the simple answer I would give to the original question, use the estate rifle, or ask the stalker to take you on ground cleared for your calibre.