Fenlander dogs

[VSS]

Jimmy was he actually as eccentric as some say?
I only ask because I once worked with a couple of guys who knew him when he worked in a local college. They both described his as being as mad as a box of frogs and having some quite strange views.

'twould be a dull old world without characters like him though, wouldn't it?

One thing that Britain has always been good at: Turning out some great eccentric characters.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Where I live in North Wales back in the very early 80s I'd never seen a Plummer terrier, and the local terrier guys that had seen them work had nothing but bad to say about them. They called them ratting dogs. As has been discussed earlier, we had a selection of extremely good terriers available, Borders, Fells, cross bred and Russells, why would you want to reinvent the wheel. I'd also agree with the comment that Mr Plummer was more about self promotion in order to sell his books.

Like many, I loved his books back in the 80's and, I have to admit, they were inspirational. However, when I look back now there seems to be some obvious flaws. Take a look through the book 'Merle' and Plummer has managed many nights out foxing wearing the same cagoul and nylon slacks and.....shoes!! All of which stay very clean throughout. The dog 'Merle' also looks very clean for a dog that has been rough and tumbling with foxes all night.
He could tell a good tale though and had he been a fictional fieldsports writer, he would have been excellent.

 

[8x57]

Like many, I loved his books back in the 80's and, I have to admit, they were inspirational. However, when I look back now there seems to be some obvious flaws. Take a look through the book 'Merle' and Plummer has managed many nights out foxing wearing the same cagoul and nylon slacks and.....shoes!! All of which stay very clean throughout. The dog 'Merle' also looks very clean for a dog that has been rough and tumbling with foxes all night.
He could tell a good tale though and had he been a fictional fieldsports writer, he would have been excellent.

I too remember reading and enjoying his books back in the late 70s or early 80s. I borrowed them from the local library, what chance of that these days I wonder! Answer-absolutely none.
While walking the dogs yesterday I was thinking to myself what would I make of the books if I were to read them today. Would I still enjoy them the same, or have my perceptions changed over the years?

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I too remember reading and enjoying his books back in the late 70s or early 80s. I borrowed them from the local library, what chance of that these days I wonder! Answer-absolutely none.
While walking the dogs yesterday I was thinking to myself what would I make of the books if I were to read them today. Would I still enjoy them the same, or have my perceptions changed over the years?

You would still enjoy them but....from a different perspective

 

[Jon P]

You would still enjoy them but....from a different perspective

I was never much of a book reader but can say theses are probably the only books I read cover to cover multiple times as a kid, just checked the bookshelf and still have 7 of them.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I was never much of a book reader but can say theses are probably the only books I read cover to cover multiple times as a kid, just checked the bookshelf and still have 7 of them.

Trog is worth a read too. The 'Merle' book got me and my mate all fired up on lurchers and we visited Hancocks.....farm.....a few times. He came away with a nice reverse 3/4 bred collie greyhound. I went a little further down the road to Brownhills and got myself a whippet/bedlington/collie.

To be fair to Plummer, his books entertained me, I learnt from them and they made me feel good - in that respect, he achieved a lot.

 

[VSS]

I too remember reading and enjoying his books back in the late 70s or early 80s. I borrowed them from the local library, what chance of that these days I wonder! Answer-absolutely none.

Of course you could still get them from your local library (if you've still got a local library, that is). They'll order in whatever books you want.

 

[landkeeper]

Trog is worth a read too. The 'Merle' book got me and my mate all fired up on lurchers and we visited Hancocks.....farm.....a few times. He came away with a nice reverse 3/4 bred collie greyhound. I went a little further down the road to Brownhills and got myself a whippet/bedlington/collie.

To be fair to Plummer, his books entertained me, I learnt from them and they made me feel good - in that respect, he achieved a lot.

My best friend had a big 30"at the shoulder 7/8 greyhound x collie from Hancock it was by far the best most efficient fox killer day or night I have ever seen ,beating covers daytime he would follow the scent of a fox even unseen at full tilt and normally bring back his fox ,nightime he was a pure death Ray swing outside the lamp beam and just kill with a couple of flicks he had two issues woebetide any other male dog that came nr him with his fox and because he was such a big strong dog he kept breaking toes

 

[landkeeper]

Where I live in North Wales back in the very early 80s I'd never seen a Plummer terrier, and the local terrier guys that had seen them work had nothing but bad to say about them. They called them ratting dogs. As has been discussed earlier, we had a selection of extremely good terriers available, Borders, Fells, cross bred and Russells, why would you want to reinvent the wheel. I'd also agree with the comment that Mr Plummer was more about self promotion in order to sell his books.

But rats were what they were line bred for if the hype is to be believed , I've seen a few over the years and wouldn't thank you for any

 

[Keith Edmunds]

My best friend had a big 30"at the shoulder 7/8 greyhound x collie from Hancock it was by far the best most efficient fox killer day or night I have ever seen ,beating covers daytime he would follow the scent of a fox even unseen at full tilt and normally bring back his fox ,nightime he was a pure death Ray swing outside the lamp beam and just kill with a couple of flicks he had two issues woebetide any other male dog that came nr him with his fox and because he was such a big strong dog he kept breaking toes

Unashamed thread hijack but here I am my mates Hancock 3/4 collie 1/4 greyhound. And also with two whippet lurchers over 30 years ago

 

[Bo Diddley]

Plummer was a great raconteur. But he was a theorist with his hunting, I believe that when he had dug a few foxes with a dog, or it had killed a few dozen rats he was thinking of what he could cross/mate it with to move his project on. Same with his running dogs. I met him a few times and it was always entertaining. When I first his book Diary of a Hunter it was like a light being turned on for me, I've enjoyed hunting with dogs ever since...

 

[Bo Diddley]

Unashamed thread hijack but here I am my mates Hancock 3/4 collie 1/4 greyhound. And also with two whippet lurchers over 30 years ago

Really nice photos

 

[scotch_egg]

Hancock dogs. Not seen one mentioned for a while. Must be the circles I’m in now days but the ones I’ve seen make amazing rabbit dogs.

Just a shame we don’t have the rabbit populations now days. Well it is for sport, maybe not for the farmer. Before anyone berate me, yeah I do enjoy hunting.

 

[Skinny78]

Any general thoughts on Fenlander dogs for mixed stalking use and maybe the odd pheasant days? I was potentially looking at a gwp but have been offered a fenlander recently and it was mentioned they might be a little easier to manage. Of course needs to settle as family friendly 90% of the time. There really doesn’t seem to be much info out there on them other than one website

Never heard of them, if you are looking for a good allrounder the Cesky Fousek have really started to prove themselves down here, good indicators on deer good pointers upland completely adequate in the water and handle snow conditions all day on geese.

 

[Lloyd90]

Hancock dogs. Not seen one mentioned for a while. Must be the circles I’m in now days but the ones I’ve seen make amazing rabbit dogs.

Just a shame we don’t have the rabbit populations now days. Well it is for sport, maybe not for the farmer. Before anyone berate me, yeah I do enjoy hunting.

Every proper lurcher man I know said Hancock was nothing more than a puppy farmer / peddlar ... there's lads out there breeding proper working cross collie lurchers... problem is finding one... or much like any of the gundog breeds, finding one where the owner isn't chatting nonsence sadly.

I've not been out with a lurcher for years, but managed to see his video the other day and brought back fond memories that fawn dog is a cracker.

 

[landkeeper]

Every proper lurcher man I know said Hancock was nothing more than a puppy farmer / peddlar ... there's lads out there breeding proper working cross collie lurchers... problem is finding one... or much like any of the gundog breeds, finding one where the owner isn't chatting nonsence sadly.

I've not been out with a lurcher for years, but managed to see his video the other day and brought back fond memories that fawn dog is a cracker.

That red dogs truly a craftsman soft mouthed too

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Every proper lurcher man I know said Hancock was nothing more than a puppy farmer / peddlar ... there's lads out there breeding proper working cross collie lurchers... problem is finding one... or much like any of the gundog breeds, finding one where the owner isn't chatting nonsence sadly.

I've not been out with a lurcher for years, but managed to see his video the other day and brought back fond memories that fawn dog is a cracker.

In a sense, Hancock was a farmer of lurchers and the hygiene around the 'kennels' left a lot to be desired. I remember walking through one shed and the ammonia in the air made my eyes sting. When we went to visit Linnet, that dam of my mates dog, her run was littered with rabbit bones - more than a day old and funnily enough, when we went in the kitchen for a cup of tea there was a bitch sleeping on straw! in a gap where an appliance used to stand.

Having said that, we believed, rightly or wrongly, that the collies - borders, beardies and border x beardies where what they were said to be. Likewise with the collie/greyhound stud dogs. Personally, again rightly or wrongly, I didn't take too much interest in the greyhound bitches - just that they were ex-track or ex-coursing.

David Hancock was an intelligent bloke, he could string sentences together very well and he could show you a pedigree and the dogs around the place that featured within it...............that alone was a refreshing change and, by all accounts, still seems to be.

Simon's done some great videos, I ferreted with him in the 90's and he used to join us on a shoot we looked after, that he took over pest control on at the time. All very good memories that make me smile today.

 

[Beretta V]

Not much mention of springador.
I got a cocker pedigree which was a very good dog now 13 1/2.
My mate a springador. Looked like a small lab not much bigger than my cocker.
It worked like a spaniel, was a really good retriever and a lovely temperament.
If the owner had more time to train it I think it would have been a wonderful dog as it was a natural good dog.

Definitely a cross breed I would consider for my next dog.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Every proper lurcher man I know said Hancock was nothing more than a puppy farmer / peddlar ... there's lads out there breeding proper working cross collie lurchers... problem is finding one... or much like any of the gundog breeds, finding one where the owner isn't chatting nonsence sadly.

I've not been out with a lurcher for years, but managed to see his video the other day and brought back fond memories that fawn dog is a cracker.

 

[bogtrotter]

I’ve seen a lot of ‘pennine pointers’ over the years and honestly would only give kennel room to a few over that time. They do go hard and keep going (and can push other dogs to keep going by way of competition) but relatively few people will put a good lab to a good pointer - it’s usually mediocre to mediocre. Even speaking to people who have had them for a long time - they are realistic in the percentage that ‘make it’.

If they were actually consistently good - we would have some in the kennels, I’ve never felt under gunned with labs.

Weimeraners - never seen one that even approaches being an ‘alright’ working dog (to be fair I’ve seen relatively few) so not sure why you would think they might bring something to the table rather than a German Pointer cross but that has already been done so he can’t claim a novelty factor.

Problem these days seems to be that with social media you can claim pretty much anything whereas in the past you had to earn recognition.

My basic thought on most things is that you won’t go far wrong with a good lab. Depending how you bring them up they will do pretty much anything you might want, plenty to choose from and it’s hard to cock them up. They might not be fashionable but they are used widely for a good reason.

up

Nothing against Labs, I have two, but not much good when you need a pointer, although the Americans have what they call pointing labs.not sure what has gone in to their make-up..
Our clients will only hunt with pointing dogs pointers and setters in the main these clients won't shoot birds if they have not been pointed by the dogs they work in teams of two men and a brace of dogs the trouble with this the English pointer is good at what he does but is a poor retriever as a rule, English Setters will retrieve but in many cases they are hard mouthed let's just say retrieving is not their strong point
I have worked mainly GSPs with one GSP ×GWP which was a superb dog..
Many but not all of the German pointers have a problem with hard mouth I had one GSP who had a a problemwith her mouth though it could not be described as hard mouth while she was great at picking Woodcock she could never find Snipe she could find and point them ok but once flushed and shot she could not find them , that was until I discovered she was just hoovering them up in full stride and swallowing them whole

Know a few keepers with Pennine pointers and I'm tempted, the idea of the combination of a pointing dog with the soft mouth of a Lab is appealing
Though of course I may end up with a fast free ranging crocodile